>> I'm not sure where you got Web2Py from Well, it was mentioned in the reply before my first reply, which is why I picked up on it.
It's here: http://web2py.com/ webpy is here: http://webpy.org/ On Apr 22, 2:04 pm, Phil Mocek <pmocek-list-django-us...@mocek.org> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 07:46:48PM +0200, Stef Mientki wrote: > > With Python you can do everything, so why do you need Django or > > Web2Py at all ? > > Django and web.py (which is the topic of this thread; I'm not sure > where you got Web2Py from) *are* Python. They are Web application > frameworks written in Python. Anyone who is interested in Django > but unfamiliar with the term should see the first section of the > first chapter of _The Django Book_, "What Is a Web Framework?" [1]. > > [1]: <http://djangobook.com/en/2.0/chapter01/> > > > I'm struggling with the same question [about Django vs. web.py] for > > about 2 months now. It seems that a lot of people who answered this > > question, all have a lot of apriori knowledge of webdesign. > > Questions in my opinion are never stupid, only answers can be. > > That depends on how you look at things. I've been referencing Eric S. > Raymond's essay, "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way" [2], on this list > recently, because I'm not used to such poorly-worded or lazy questions > being asked on a technical mailing list. Programmers don't typically > operate like this, and it's odd to see subscribers to a technical list > put up with so much wasted time and effort. I assume it's a result of > lots of participation from people who are new to programming and > unfamiliar with netiquette and the ways of hackers. > > For those who don't know, Mr. Raymond, frequently referred to as ESR, is > well-known in hacker circles and the Free Software movement in general > as the maintainer of the Jargon File [4] and author of "The Cathedral > and the Bazaar" [5]. > > [2]: <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> > [3]: <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html> > [4]: <http://www.catb.org/jargon/> > [5]: <http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral-bazaar/> > > Following is a quote from from ESR's essay "How to Ask Questions > the Smart Way" that illustrates the difference between stupid and > smart questions: > > > > >> Use meaningful, specific subject headers > > >> On mailing lists, newsgroups or Web forums, the subject header is > >> your golden opportunity to attract qualified experts' attention in > >> around 50 characters or fewer. Don't waste it on babble like "Please > >> help me" (let alone "PLEASE HELP ME!!!!"; messages with subjects like > >> that get discarded by reflex). Don't try to impress us with the depth > >> of your anguish; use the space for a super-concise problem > >> description instead. > > >> One good convention for subject headers, used by many tech support > >> organizations, is "object - deviation". The "object" part specifies > >> what thing or group of things is having a problem, and the > >> "deviation" part describes the deviation from expected behavior. > > >> Stupid: > >> HELP! Video doesn't work properly on my laptop! > > >> Smart: > >> X.org 6.8.1 misshapen mouse cursor, Fooware MV1005 vid. chipset > > >> Smarter: > >> X.org 6.8.1 mouse cursor on Fooware MV1005 vid. chipset - is > >> misshapen > > >> The process of writing an "object-deviation" description will help > >> you organize your thinking about the problem in more detail. What is > >> affected? Just the mouse cursor or other graphics too? Is this > >> specific to the X.org version of X? To version 6.8.1? Is this > >> specific to Fooware video chipsets? To model MV1005? A hacker who > >> sees the result can immediately understand what it is that you are > >> having a problem with and the problem you are having, at a glance. > > >> More generally, imagine looking at the index of an archive of > >> questions, with just the subject lines showing. Make your subject > >> line reflect your question well enough that the next guy searching > >> the archive with a question similar to yours will be able to follow > >> the thread to an answer rather than posting the question again. > > >> If you ask a question in a reply, be sure to change the subject line > >> to indicate that you're asking a question. A Subject line that looks > >> like "Re: test" or "Re: new bug" is less likely to attract useful > >> amounts of attention. Also, pare quotation of previous messages to > >> the minimum consistent with cluing in new readers. > > The whole essay is worth reading. I'll quote two more sections, the > introduction and "Before you Ask", for those who are unwilling to simply > go and read the whole thing. Note that "hacker" is used in the > traditional sense (one who enjoys finding clever ways to make computers > do things) and not the more popular but inaccurate sense (one who causes > mischief with computers; those are crackers, not hackers). > > >> Introduction > > >> In the world of hackers, the kind of answers you get to your > >> technical questions depends as much on the way you ask the questions > >> as on the difficulty of developing the answer. This guide will teach > >> you how to ask questions in a way more likely to get you a > >> satisfactory answer. > > >> Now that use of open source has become widespread, you can often get > >> as good answers from other, more experienced users as from hackers. > >> This is a Good Thing; users tend to be just a little bit more > >> tolerant of the kind of failures newbies often have. Still, treating > >> experienced users like hackers in the ways we recommend here will > >> generally be the most effective way to get useful answers out of > >> them, too. > > >> The first thing to understand is that hackers actually like hard > >> problems and good, thought-provoking questions about them. If we > >> didn't, we wouldn't be here. If you give us an interesting question > >> to chew on we'll be grateful to you; good questions are a stimulus > >> and a gift. Good questions help us develop our understanding, and > >> often reveal problems we might not have noticed or thought about > >> otherwise. Among hackers, "Good question!" is a strong and sincere > >> compliment. > > >> Despite this, hackers have a reputation for meeting simple questions > >> with what looks like hostility or arrogance. It sometimes looks like > >> we're reflexively rude to newbies and the ignorant. But this isn't > >> really true. > > >> What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be > >> unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking > >> questions. People like that are time sinks — they take without > >> giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another > >> question more interesting and another person more worthy of an > >> answer. We call people like this "losers" (and for historical reasons > >> we sometimes spell it "lusers"). > > >> We realize that there are many people who just want to use the > >> software we write, and who have no interest in learning technical > >> details. For most people, a computer is merely a tool, a means to an > >> end; they have more important things to do and lives to live. We > >> acknowledge that, and don't expect everyone to take an interest in > >> the technical matters that fascinate us. Nevertheless, our style of > >> answering questions is tuned for people who do take such an interest > >> and are willing to be active participants in problem-solving. That's > >> not going to change. Nor should it; if it did, we would become less > >> effective at the things we do best. > > >> We're (largely) volunteers. We take time out of busy lives to answer > >> questions, and at times we're overwhelmed with them. So we filter > >> ruthlessly. In particular, we throw away questions from people who > >> appear to be losers in order to spend our question-answering time > >> more efficiently, on winners. > > >> If you find this attitude obnoxious, condescending, or arrogant, > >> check your assumptions. We're not asking you to genuflect to us — in > >> fact, most of us would love nothing more than to deal with you as an > >> equal and welcome you into our culture, if you put in the effort > >> required to make that possible. But it's simply not efficient for us > >> to try to help people who are not willing to help themselves. It's OK > >> to be ignorant; it's not OK to play stupid. > > >> So, while it isn't necessary to already be technically competent to > >> get attention from us, it is necessary to demonstrate the kind of > >> attitude that leads to competence — alert, thoughtful, observant, > >> willing to be an active partner in developing a solution. If you > >> can't live with this sort of discrimination, we suggest you pay > >> somebody for a commercial support contract instead of asking hackers > >> to personally donate help to you. > > >> If you decide to come to us for help, you don't want to be one of the > >> losers. You don't want to seem like one, either. The best way to get > >> a rapid and responsive answer is to ask it like a person with smarts, > >> confidence, and clues who just happens to need help on one particular > >> problem. > > >> (Improvements to this guide are welcome. You can mail suggestions to > >> e...@thyrsus.com or respond-a...@linuxmafia.com. Note however that > >> this document is not intended to be a general guide to netiquette, > >> and we will generally reject suggestions that are not specifically > >> related to eliciting useful answers in a technical forum.) > >> Before You Ask > > >> Before asking a technical question by e-mail, or in a newsgroup, or > >> on a website chat board, do the following: > > >> 1. Try to find an answer by searching the archives of the forum > >> you plan to post to. > >> 2. Try to find an answer by searching the Web. > >> 3. Try to find an answer by reading the manual. > >> 4. Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ. > >> 5. Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation. > >> 6. Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend. > >> 7. If you're a programmer, try to find an answer by reading the > >> source code. > > >> When you ask your question, display the fact that you have done these > >> things first; this will help establish that you're not being a lazy > >> sponge and wasting people's time. Better yet, display what you have > >> learned from doing these things. We like answering questions for > >> people who > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
