On Sat, 28 Feb 2015 01:42:49 -0500 "Steven W. Scott" <codekra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2015 11:45 PM, "Steve Litt" <sl...@troubleshooters.com> > wrote: > > > On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 14:18:15 -0600 > > "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duch...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > With respect to all, I think that a measure of objectivity is > > > called for here. I think that because personality clashes that > > > Debian's entire systemd discussion has lost any sense of reality > > > long ago. > > > > You know, T.J., I might just agree with you, *if* you can show me a > > block diagram of the systemd ecosystem, *complete with interaction > > lines as well as functional blocks*. > > > > You know, like this: > > > > http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/images/email_arch_personal.png > > > > Or these: > > > > http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/200803/images/server_app.png > > http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/200803/images/client_app.png > > > > Or these: > > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_process_overview.png > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_daemontools.png > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_minimal_service.png > > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_dnscache_block_diagram.png > > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_tinydns_block_diagram.png > > > > Or this: > > > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/nullmailer/images/nullmailer_mm.png > > > > But not the following, because it's boxes with no lines: > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Systemd_components.svg/440px-Systemd_components.svg.png > > > > Nor this, because it's obviously incomplete as a representation of > > the systemd ecosphere: > > > > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Linux_kernel_unified_hierarchy_cgroups_and_systemd.svg/440px-Linux_kernel_unified_hierarchy_cgroups_and_systemd.svg.png > > > > > > Bottom line is this: If you make a modular system with thin > > interfaces and sane components, somebody will make a block diagram > > representing it, accurately, in its entirety. > > > > It could be argued that the email, sockets, and djb software > > systems I diagrammed were much simpler than systemd. Fair enough, > > but I'm one guy doing this stuff in my spare time, not six guys > > getting paid full time by Red Hat. I'm sure one of the geniuses Red > > Hat hired could have diagrammed system accurately and completely. > > Heck, I often do that *before* I write software, just so the system > > turns out architecturally sound. > > > > Let's see the block diagram. Prove systemd doesn't have grave > > architectural problems. > > > > SteveT > > > > Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ > > Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance > Lol! I recently happened to be researching the different soundsystem > architectures, after incinerating pulseaudio on my laptop/Wheezy and > then having different problems, and found --> > https://wiki.debian.org/Sound > > What struck me of particular interest were the three diagrams of how > alsa/jack/pulseaudio perceive the sound architecture. I couldn't help > but think that systemd very likely has the same structure. The > "mother, may I?/None shall pass/TRON MCP" structure. > > Developers often hang to a general pattern of designing things; I > cant see why the designer behind pulseaudio would be different. Best > argument against systemd I've seen to date. > > SWS Hi Steven, First, thank you *so much* for providing these three diagrams. I've been trying to find out how sound works for a long time. As far as http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Pulseaudio-diagram.svg/1000px-Pulseaudio-diagram.svg.png , if systemd had a block diagram like that, and if the boxes truly represent modules and not just concepts, I would stipulate that T.J. might have a point, because that diagram is actually something I could troubleshoot off of, always assuming the arrows between them represent thin, clean interfaces. SteveT Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng