On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 12:33:33 -0400 John Franklin <frank...@tux.org> wrote:
> > On Oct 16, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> > > wrote: > > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:18:43 +0200 > > "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" <dr.kl...@gmx.at> wrote: > > > >> Am Samstag, 7. Oktober 2017 schrieb Tobias Hunger: > >>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Then maybe I misunderstood the reason for EFI. > >>> > >>> UEFI is a huge step forward in pretty much all areas and makes > >>> booting both simpler and more powerful. > > [snip] > > > > Tobias Hunger is a systemd apologist and perpetual troll. Instead of > > contributing to the systemd project, he comes to Devuan discussion > > venues and says "systemd's not so bad.” > > Where, exactly, did Tobias mention systemd? Throughout the "The show goes on: “su” command replacement merged into systemd on Fedora Rawhide" thread starting 8/28/2015, and the "does systemd set runlevel 0 in utmp on shutdown?" thread starting 8/28/2015. Currently the web-based Dng archives are unavailable. > > >>> > >>> With UEFI the firmware just loads a efi binary with everything:-) > >>> MUCH simpler. > > > > There's absolutely nothing simpler about the preceding sentence: > > Hunger simply fails to break out a vast tree of subcomponents and > > dependencies of the "efi binary.” > > Please enlighten us. Not my job. I enlighten about good software and features, not monolithic complexifications. But it's obvious merely mentioning an executable while comparing it to a complete tree analysis of an alternative is deliberate propaganda. > > >>> * UEFI allows for more security with secure boot. E.g. my thinkpad > >>> *only* boots things that I have signed with my key. > > > > Does Devuan have a key? If not, I guess that's all we need to know > > about what distro Tobias Hunger REALLY uses. I'm guessing he doesn't > > have the brainpower to actually implement the distro-independent > > shim, which sounds like an utter nightmare. > > Yes, it is clear he’s using a MOK to sign things. It’s also clear > you don’t understand what that means, You always have been fond of the ad-hominem, haven't you? Given that you seem to imply this misunderstanding is a deficit on my part, perhaps you can walk us all through installing a MOK on Devuan such that we can easily boot UEFI plus Secure Boot with Devuan. > and instead take another shot > at insulting him. > > >>> * UEFI allows for different OSes living next to each other > >>> peacefully, without the constant fight over who writes the MBR and > >>> with that defines the boot loader. > > > > Characterization. "Peacefully?" "Constantly fighting?" The fights > > only occur when changing the boot system. And by the way, if you > > use MBR boot, you can use the old and superior Grub1 or LILO. > > Stage 1.5 bootloaders were written to unused parts of the disk. > Other OSes and tools commonly wrote their intermediate bootloaders or > RAID configuration or whatnot to unused parts of the disk. Often, a > second program would write to the same unused part of the disk, > overwriting or corrupting the first. Tobias is spot-on here. And, as I said above, this "constantly fighting" occurs only when changing boot systems. Yeah, you have to either use Grub all the time or use Windows' system all the time. But, having done that, boot procedes based on the first 512, without need or interference with bunches of firmware based memory that can be modified to brick a system. With the first 512 guiding the whole boot, you can slowly pull yourself up by the bootstraps to ANY software situation you want. I'd rather endure the inconvenience of having to use Grub all the time rather than having a complex and poorly implemented systems such that you can't install the system you want. > > >> You forgot to mention that UEFI is the best code in the world > >> written by the the best of the best and therefore absolutely > >> secure. > > > > Nik, that should be intuitively obvious to the most casual > > observer :-) > > > > Tobias Hunger, why don't you go support the project you DO like > > instead of trolling the one you don't? > > This is grossly inappropriate. Toabias’ post was entirely technical > in nature and accurate. At no point does his denigrate, insult or > bully anyone on the list, or advocate the inclusion of packages > incompatible with the Devuan mission, such as systemd. My records tell me you've been on this list since August 12 of this year: A couple months and change. Long ago, when the VUAs were evangelizing a systemd-free distro, the world said they would fail, and everyone on the list was working toward removing systemd from Debian, Tobias Hunger regularly came on this list saying, in effect, "systemd isn't that bad." He doesn't belong here. > You owe him an apology. Perhaps you're right. Here it is. Tobias, instead of railing against this list's primary priority, why don't you go join the systemd project and make it the init of your dreams. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. SteveT Steve Litt October 2017 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
