> Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 22:33:49 -0400
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Duo2400] Re: Type II batteries and Duo 280?
>
> In a message dated Sun, 8 Sep 2002 8:53:11 PM Eastern Standard
> Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >  I have someone sending me three dead Type
> > 3's to see how they do with my newly-acquired Lind SuperCharger
> II. We're
> > curious to see if I was just lucky or if some Type 3's can
> > come back from
> > the dead.
>
> Wow... I think I speak for the list when I ask if you could post
> the results of your experiment...
>
> Craig W.

Just to recap, we were talking about the fact that a common failure mode for
Duo Type 3 batteries  was to get to a point where just inserting one into a
Duo would cause the Duo to crash hard and refuse to turn on with the battery
insert. I also had related my experiences with getting one battery like this
to return tu usefulness after putting it into a Duo external charger. Since
that time, I had obtained a Lind SuperCharger II from an ebay auction and
had someone from another list sending me three similarly bad Type 3s to try
and recover.

Our story continues...

The batteries arrived this past Monday. All three would not only crash a
running Duo, but would also get a red light from the Duo charger. Initially,
the Lind treated each as though it was charged and went immediately into
trickle charge mode; it would also not allow a conditioning cycle. In
frustration, I went off to watch TV, leaving two batteries in the Duo
charger with red lights and one trickle charging in the SuperCharger. When I
came back about three hours later, I was pleasantly surprised to see that
the one in the SuperCharger was now charging normally (regular charge, not
trickle charge). I transferred this one to the Duo charger where it charged
regularly to a green light.

In an initial test using BatteryAmnesia on my 280c with ADB-powered SCSI
Ethernet, battery #1 ran for 31 minutes plus boot time. This was before any
additional conditioning.

I left the second battery in the SuperCharger overnight and subsequently for
about another 18 hrs. This one never started charging regularly on the SC
and still gets a red light after charging for a while on the Duo charger.
Interestingly, however, it can now be inserted into a running Duo without
crashing. The Duo will attempt to charge the battery for a while and then
just give up.

I'm now reasonably convinced that battery #2 is dead and, if it decided to
take a charge at this point, would probably have very low capacity.

I put battery #3 in the SC after having had #2 in it all night, transferring
it directly from the Duo charger where it had been parked. It immediately
started to charge normally, despite having gotten a red light from the Duo
charger.

After charging this one to cpapacity on the SC, I decided to try
BatteryAmnesia on the afore-mentioned 280c. I got 61 minutes before the Duo
finally shut down. I repeated the test following a conditioning cycle in the
SC and got 72 minutes before shutdown. (This is actually better than one of
my own presumed-working Type IIIs.)

So, starting with three batteries which were effectively paperwieights, we
have now have one which works fairly well, one which works questionably
well, and one which doesn't work but can safely be left in a Duo.

I'm curious to see how Mad Dog and any other Duo experts can explain all
this. My own theory is that there is a) the charging circuit in both the Duo
and the Duo charger do not well handle the case of a terminally discharged
Type 3 and b) there is something about the batteries in a Type 3 which, when
extremely discharged, requires a lot of charging current for a long time
before a charge is even noted.

Notes about the SuperCharger II- According to info on the bottom, the SC II
detects a fully charged battery using "negative delta-V" detection. (I
assume this means that it charges for as long as the battery's voltage keeps
increasing.) The trickle charge method is described as "timed pulse" and the
limiting factors are listed as time and temperature.

I assume that, in the case of battery #1, the pulses eventually added up to
the point where a positive delta-v was noted and regular charging began.

It should be noted that this is all about Type 3 Duo batteries. As near as I
can tell, Type 1 and 2s are fairly conventional and work as one would
expect, losing capacity over time, but always holding a "charge".

Comments...
<<<John>>>


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