| Speaking (unofficially, of course) from the perspective of a
| LiveJournal Abuse Prevention Team member, the core problem with
| community imports is that the community maintainer who orders the
| import is not requesting their own content to be republished - it's
| content that belongs to other people, the users who individually
| posted the entries in the community. 
| ...
| The loss of control over the content that has been posted is an
| overriding issue, and is honestly much more important than the
| maintainer's convenience in moving their community to DW. 

I am sure that there must still be some maintainers on LJ who think a given 
community is "their" community. I've had the dubious pleasure of meeting a few, 
and their outlook is not one I share. As a maintainer, I'm there to help the 
users. I don't think being a maintainer somehow makes me better than the rest 
of the people who participate in a community. I don't think it grants me 
greater entitlement to the content than the members have. I am, in essence, the 
janitor. And if need be, the sheriff. I'm not Lord High Muckety-Muck of 
anything.

I have asked about importing communities to Dreamwidth because people *in the 
communities*, both maintainers and not, are asking about it. That is, in fact, 
almost invariably the very first thing I am asked about when it comes to 
Dreamwidth. And they are asking about it in terms of wanting the whole shebang 
moved, not having one foot in LJ and the other in Dreamwidth.

>From a maintainer's perspective, I can tell you it would be a heck of a lot 
>easier to lock the door on a community at LJ, post an announcement telling 
>everyone 'Hey, we've moved to Dreamwidth' and starting from scratch at the new 
>digs. That's the simplest thing to do, period. But it does nothing to serve 
>the members of an existing community who have put their time, interest, and 
>talents into building up that community's content. A lot of people have an 
>emotional investment in the living history of a community, and if presented 
>with the choice between moving to newer, posher quarters with all sorts of 
>technical improvements but without any of that context, and staying where 
>their history lives, they'll just stay put.

In theory (although gawd help anyone who had to put it into practice), the 
individual members could indeed work through the archives of an entire 
community, open the posts they created, copy out the content, and then 
systematically and in order, with the appropriate backdating, recreate those 
posts at a new iteration on Dreamwidth. And the people who commented on those 
posts could open each post, look for their comments, copy them onto their 
clipboard, and then individually paste them into new comments, adding a 
time/date stamp in the text to indicate when the comment was originally made. I 
wouldn't place odds on that happening in even the smallest niche communities.

Dreamwidth will be a great place for new communities in new fandoms. But as it 
stands, it is not friendly to the migration of existing ones, especially not 
for reference-oriented comms, which depend on the very existence of their body 
of entries to work. It's also strange that the service (possibly not through 
the conscious effort of the dev team) has been pitched as The Great White Hope 
for Fandom, when it's really not suited to easy use by the large base of 
existing fan communities.

| Comments are a gray-enough area as it is...
| ...
| Unfortunately, the same solution (OpenID attribution) just won't work for 
community entries
| without a great deal of code work.

Yes, that is a *very* grey area. If the argument is being made that a commenter 
has any less right to the content they created than someone who created content 
by making a post to a semi-public community, I'd consider that argument 
specious at best. I can tell you for my part, the fact that the importer *does* 
allow for comment importation now confuses me somewhat, since I've been told 
repeatedly and vehemently this evening that copying other people's content 
without their explicit and advance permission for each individual circumstance 
is evil, or at the very least likely to lead to serious legal trouble.

The lack of a ready technological solution to the apparent 
community-continuity/individual-creator-rights dichotomy does not mean that 
importation is something that shouldn't be worked on. Nor does it call for 
people to belittle the folks looking to help their friends and the people they 
maintain communities for make a happy, comfortable transition to Dreamwidth. 
No, I haven't been around since Dreamwidth was a mere gleam in Denise and 
Mark's eyes, nor do I work on LJ's staff. Perhaps the viewpoint of the average 
lay user of LiveJournal is something the development team could stand to hear a 
little more of, because if Dreamwidth wants to be a viable business, the 
staff—both volunteer and paid—are going to have to be prepared to play nicely 
with a much wider user base than the code-jockeying power users who have been 
around since LJ's infancy.


Thanks,

Alexis Carpenter
principia at Dreamwidth
principia_coh at LiveJournal
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