[e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)

[Eric Gaither, Gaithman's E-Gold Exchange]

Hello,

> e-gold as a system is trustworthy. How can a e-gold payment be "good" one
> moment and then not "good" later?

   I did not mean to imply e-gold payments are not "good" as there is gold
backing them.  I was speaking more from a "moralistic" viewpoint because of
the amount of scams people are pulling on Market Makers.  I am not referring
to things like the "programs" out there, after all, "buyer beware":

> How many times have you heard about the following situation?
> Some people are told that they can double their money in 48 hrs - 45 days.
> They each give a US $100 bill.
> They soon find out they were scammed.
> They then begin complaining & griping to high heaven that the USD is not
> trustworthy because they were scammed.

   I am referring to people who are using counterfeit checks, charging back
credit card purchases, supplying bogus money orders, counterfeit USD, and so
on.  This costs SOMEONE in the Gold Economy a loss (yes, almost always a
Market Maker) because of the time it can take to be declared "bogus" by a
bank or financial institution. (Checks can be reversed fourteen days later,
charge backs 6 months later, PayPal, oh, FORGET PayPal)  Those losses then
have to be passed on somewhere.  Guess who eventually pays for it?  What do
you think Inexchange expenses are for?  I love how everyone is quietly
implying that the Market Makers are NOT doing enough to keep from getting
hit.  (Stop taking these payment methods, only take referred clients, use
PGP, just take bank wires,....)  Guess what folks?  These counterfeiters and
scammers don't just affect the Market Makers.  They affect you as well.
When was the last time you were able to buy e-gold for SPOT price?

> If you are getting repeatedly scammed be credit cards, checks, etc... then
> don't accept them anymore. Don't complain that e-gold is untrustworthy
> anymore.


    This is an argument that obviously cannot be solved in a simple manner
such as just saying "stop accepting xyz payments."  I have (four times so
far) revamped the payment methods I accept.  Each time, thieves have simply
designed new methods to cheat.  Does this sound like I am crying "victim"?
Yes, on one hand I have been victimized by people trying to obtain e-gold
fraudulently. No, I do not shirk the fact that I have certain
responsibilities to "know my endorsers".  Currently, the best method to do
so, is to validate their ID with a Driver's License, photocopies of cc's, SS
#, etc..  However, certain groups are now proficient at counterfeiting those
documents as well. (You would be amazed at what people can counterfeit!)

>By the way, classifying all hackers as untrustworthy
> evildoers is the same as classifying all gun owners as cold murderers.

     Yes, you are correct.   My sincere apologies to all of you legitimate
hackers out there that are simply "hacking" for non-criminal reasons.  I
happen to know some of the best "hackers" out there are responsible for some
great technological breakthroughs and other noble achievements. I applaud
your "thinking outside the box" and using "non-traditional methods" to
acheive what has not yet been done or thought could not be done.

    The irony to all of this that a massive debate has been sparked by MM's
desires to have e-gold users ID'd.  It is not that we care WHO you are or
WHERE you are from, or WHAT you are going to do with your e-gold.  We just
need to know that we have a recourse if your payment is bad.  Quite the
double edged sword: give people a currency that is non-reputable in exchange
for the *crap* (fiat monies) they trade in now.  No matter what policies or
procedures we have in place, thieves find ways around it.  Want proof: ask
ANY Market Maker (even e-gold or G&SR) if they have a full proof method to
stop this from happening.  In fact, my guess is this is EXACTLY why Market
Makers were called for in the first place:  insulation from fiat monies.

     So, keep your anonymity, keep your privacy, keep your financial affairs
private.  In return, all we ask is that you keep your BOGUS PAYMENTS to
yourself as well!

     This message was brought to you by the fine folks of:  Anti-Scam.
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    Happy New Years!

      Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Viking Coder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: e-gold Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 3:32 AM
Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: The offer still stands (sincerely!)


> > However, e-gold is now rampant with thieves, counterfeiters, and hackers
who
> > have obtained their gold stores illegally.  The trust is then gone. Sure
the
> > payment is "good" at the moment, but it ultimately cost someone (Market
> > Makers, G&SR, fellow e-gold users) a great deal because the gold was
stolen
> > from them.  Back to square one, yes?
> >
> >      Eric
> >
>
> No.
>
An e-gold payment is ALWAYS good. Fiat
> currencies aren't untrustworthy because thieves, counterfeiters, and
> hackers use them.
>
>
> I haven't ever heard this said about the USD, but many of the messages on
> this list are trying to say it about e-gold.
>
> The only person who can receive a bad payment is a Market-Maker. They
> didn't receive a bad e-gold payment. They spent e-gold before the other
> type of payment had cleared and the cash was in their hand.
>
>
> If a hacker broke into e-gold's server and spent ficticious e-gold to you
> then the only way you would know is if e-gold ltd. or G&SR found out. They
> should then patch that hole in the security, and install a much tighter
> security system. >
> Viking Coder
>
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