I was going to avoid jumping into the fray, but . . . Count me in the camp that appreciates Zar as an introductory text. I have not taught a stats class, but Zar is the text assigned for a stats class I had many years back. I remember it being good at introducing the concepts and I continue to use it as a reference today.
Another book that i like that hasn't been mentioned yet is "The Ecological Detective" by Hilborn and Mangel. While not a good introductory text, it might be good as a supplemental book for discussion of use of statistics in ecological research. And since Stephen mentioned R... I have learned most of what I know about R from Dalgaard's Intro text in concert with the more complete "Modern Applied Statistcs with S" by Venables and Ripley. Cheers, Jeff Hollister p.s. I too have enjoyed reading this thread. I don't know when this fascination with stats texts developed, but a quick perusal of my bookshelf and I count 12 stats related books. I will admit to being a bit disturbed by that. Quoting "Stephen B. Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hello Howie - (I am one of the few poor souls who actually enjoys reading > "long rambles" about imparting good statistical know-how to future > scientists :) > > I can definitely see your point about the difficulties associated with > implementing the Q&K text in introductory courses. As much as I do like it, > I have yet to adopt it in my courses. However, I do like the fact that > they avoid a 'cookbook' approach, and present quantitative methods within > the broader context of conducting science (and thinking about what your are > doing!). This is also a strength of Gotelli and Ellison's book, which I > also like very much. In fact - although I only require one textbook - I try > to emphasize to my students the value of starting their own library, and > encourage them to at least take a look at all of the texts which have > previously been mentioned. For anyone wanting to pursue a career in science > - good resources (and especially stats resources :) are a worthy > investment! I will check out the H&H book you mentioned. > > And I wholeheartedly agree with your aversion to teaching "point and click" > approaches to statistical computing!! In addition to reducing error, > forcing the use of explicit code creates a reproducable and well-documented > history of past analysis (and data management). I have incorporated R into > my introductory course, and have had very good success. Once students get > over the initial learning curve, they quickly learn to appreciate the power > and flexibility of knowing a statistical programming tool. "Introductory > Statistics with R" by Peter Dalgaard is a great supplementary text for this > purpose. > > Cheers > > Stephen > > > On 10/20/06, Howie Neufeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Dear All - the thread about which statistical text to use is interesting > > to read, and reflects, I think, the depth and breadth of statistical > > sophistication among us ecologists. Those of us with a smattering to > > moderate amount would probably prefer a more introductory book for our > > incoming graduate students, while those with a lot of training in > > statistics would prefer a higher powered book. > > For years I used Zar - it does have depth and breadth, and plenty of > > examples worked out. It's a great reference book too. Others seem to > > prefer Quinn and Keough. And I'm sure there are yet others who have > > their own favorite texts. Based on my sampling, I think the only true > > conclusion is that medical statisticians write the absolutely worst > > texts and ecologists the best ones! > > However, this year I switched texts to one by Hampton and Havel > > (H&H) because I realized that in my intro biometrics course (that's what > > we call it here historically) I never got to at least half of the > > chapters in Zar, not to mention that the Zar book is expensive. Much > > the same material I covered in past years is included in the H&H book. > > But because its paperback, it has a greatly reduced price (~$25). It's > > also geared for those students with essentially no a priori background > > in statistics, and my students like it so far. > > I found the Quinn and Keough book way too advanced for the > > introductory student. From a pedagogical point of view, I thought it > > was poorly developed. It had its moments, but as a teaching tool for > > students just starting out, it would have been way to much for my > > students. It too contains much more material than I could ever cover in > > my intro course. > > Not wanting my students to have too much disposable income, I > > supplement the H&H text with Gotelli and Ellison's new Primer on > > Ecological Statistics, because I like their philosophy and approach to > > statistics. However, they provide no work study problems, but again, > > and as Aaron Ellison has told me, that was not their goal. But their > > discussions of why we do statistics, the history involved, and their > > section on experimental design are all highly readable, so I assign this > > as an auxiliary text for them. I especially like their discussion of > > what Bayesian statistics are, and how they can be used. That is not > > something most of even mention in intro courses. > > Finally, we conduct a SAS lab each week. Yes, I'm one of the dodos > > of the statistical world that still finds SAS programming useful, and so > > I inflict this on my students (If I had to do it.....! - no that's not > > the reason!). For this we use Cody and Smith's "Applied Statistics and > > the SAS Programming Language". I'm sure there are those who find this > > type of training anachronistic, but simply using point and click > > programs often leads to errors in experimental design and then analysis, > > which are less likely if you are writing the programming yourself. By > > the end of their first semester, they can move on to point and click > > programs, so they end up with several skills here. > > The main problem we have at Appalachian State is a follow-up > > experimental design course for our graduate students. I would be most > > happy if someone who is teaching a second semester course in this area > > would send me their syllabus. We want to set up such a course here, and > > I would appreciate feedback as to what we should include in such > > a course. > > Thanks for listening to this long ramble. > > Howie Neufeld > > > > -- > > Dr. Howard S. Neufeld, Professor > > Department of Biology > > 572 Rivers Street > > Appalachian State University > > Boone, NC 28608 > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > departmental webpage: > > http://www.biology.appstate.edu/faculty/neufeldhs.htm > > personal webpage: http://www.appstate.edu/~neufeldhs/index.html > > > > Tel: 828-262-2683 > > Fax: 828-262-2127 > > >
