To be fair, ESA's profit margin is much smaller than that of commercial publishers. But I wonder how much of that money comes from people paying outrageous sums for individual articles. Not much, I'll bet.
There would seem to be a simple technical solution. Just as IP addresses are currently used to check whether someone is at a subscribing institution, they could be used to see whether an article request is coming from someone at a university. If yes, they'd only have access if their library subscribed (or if they had an individual subscription). Non-institutional users would get free access. Jane Shevtsov On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 2:39 PM, M.S. Patterson <tertiarym...@gmail.com>wrote: > David, you're correct that many libraries have subscriptions to various > journals, and are capable of getting an article via interlibrary loan. > > However, this is simply a case of passing the buck. Do you think > publishers give free access to libraries and universities? > They do not. The subscription fees that libraries pay are exceedingly > steep, and as library budgets have been getting slashed, many have been > cutting back substantially on their journal access, counting on others > within the library system to maintain subscriptions. And, of course, every > interlibrary loan request costs time, labor, and money to the communities > involved. Surely it is more socially efficient to charge a few dollars for > an article, and make it easily available to people, than it is to charge a > large sum to a library, and then incur additional labor costs to shuttle a > document around from place to place? > > The cost of distribution for the publishers is essentially nil, given that > they already have invested in the sites in place to distribute their > articles, whether they cost $50 or $2. Electrons are quite cheap. This is > a simple case of an industry with substantial monopoly power engaging in > rent seeking. A simple search on "academic publisher profits" would be > extremely enlightening, I suspect. Here is a good place to start: > http://www.economist.com/node/**18744177<http://www.economist.com/node/18744177> > > -m > > > On 1/9/2012 9:51 AM, David L. McNeely wrote: > >> ---- Jane Shevtsov<jane....@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I just checked, and ESA charges nonsubscribers $20 for a single article >>> published in the December 2011 issue of Ecology. How is that reasonable? >>> And I'm no business maven, but isn't that far past the optimal price >>> point >>> in terms of revenue generation? I could see paying $2 or $3 for an >>> article >>> if I was an infrequent reader, but $20? >>> >>> There's a good blog post on what alternatives publishers might support >>> at< >>> http://researchremix.**wordpress.com/2012/01/07/what-** >>> should-the-publishers-lobby-**for/<http://researchremix.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/what-should-the-publishers-lobby-for/> >>> >>>> . >>>> >>> Is it really so difficult to get a paper? I have never been unable to >> get a paper I wanted or needed, and I have never paid the high prices that >> publishers demand for instant access on the internet. Most of us live >> within 50 miles of a library. If the library does not subscribe to the >> journal in which the paper appears, interlibrary loan will get it for a >> reasonable cost. The real problem is the demand for instant gratification >> that we have developed. It is that that we are being asked to pay for. >> >> Should a paper cost $50? I really don't know what it costs the journal >> to produce the paper, what the demand is (well, for some papers the demand >> is virtually nothing), or what distribution costs. I do know that such >> services as BioOne have greatly improved the bottom lines of some scholarly >> organizations, which in the long run makes papers more available, not less. >> >> I guess in this one instance I am suggesting that free market is not so >> bad. If you really must have the paper the instant you locate it through >> the free search and free abstract mechanisms of the publishers, why then >> pay the asking price. Otherwise, use more traditional means of getting it. >> If publishers are getting the asking price, they will maintain it, or >> maybe ask a little more. If they are not getting it, they will back off. >> >> If you are so far back in the sticks that you don't have ready access to >> a library, investigate a bit. I'll bet some library serves you if you find >> out how. If you are living in a cabin off the traveled roads and off the >> grid, then you don't have internet access either, so your complaints about >> no open access are moot. >> >> David McNeely >> >>> Jane Shevtsov >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:08 PM, M.S. >>> Patterson<tertiarymatt@gmail.**com<tertiarym...@gmail.com> >>> >wrote: >>> >>> Here's an additional opinion on the matter, and it is rather less >>>> charitable: >>>> http://phylogenomics.blogspot.****com/2012/01/yhgtbfkm-** >>>> ecological-society-of-america.****html?utm_source=feedburner&**** >>>> utm_medium=twitter&utm_****campaign=Feed%3A+**** >>>> TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+* >>>> *Life%29<http://phylogenomics.**blogspot.com/2012/01/yhgtbfkm-** >>>> ecological-society-of-america.**html?utm_source=feedburner&** >>>> utm_medium=twitter&utm_**campaign=Feed%3A+** >>>> TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+**Life%29<http://phylogenomics.blogspot.com/2012/01/yhgtbfkm-ecological-society-of-america.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+Life%29> >>>> >< >>>> http://phylogenomics.**blogspo**t.com/2012/01/yhgtbfkm-**<http://blogspot.com/2012/01/yhgtbfkm-**> >>>> ecological-society-of-america.****html?utm_source=feedburner&**** >>>> utm_medium=twitter&utm_****campaign=Feed%3A+**** >>>> TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+* >>>> *Life%29<http://phylogenomics.**blogspot.com/2012/01/yhgtbfkm-** >>>> ecological-society-of-america.**html?utm_source=feedburner&** >>>> utm_medium=twitter&utm_**campaign=Feed%3A+** >>>> TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+**Life%29<http://phylogenomics.blogspot.com/2012/01/yhgtbfkm-ecological-society-of-america.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+Life%29> >>>> > >>>> The fact that ESA forces authors to cede the copyright to their work is >>>> offensive, IMO, even if they 'grant' the author reprint or reproduction >>>> rights. It also means that ESA could choose to rewrite their rules such >>>> that authors could lose rights to reprint or reproduce their own work. >>>> Academic publishers should be granted first printing rights, with the >>>> option to acquire additional rights at a later date, as they desire. >>>> Nothing more. As it currently stands, ESA's policy is essentially >>>> treating research articles as work-made-for-hire, which is ludicrous, >>>> given >>>> that authors must pay page charges to print the work! In essence >>>> researchers are paying to have their work printed, while ceding all of >>>> their rights to the publisher in the process. >>>> >>>> Further, I don't think anyone is suggesting that ESA should be denied >>>> all >>>> subscription fees (or page fees), but simply that papers should become >>>> available publicly over time, and that any research funded by public >>>> monies >>>> should be available to the public sooner rather than later. Which is >>>> entirely reasonable, and more than likely beneficial to the public. >>>> >>>> -m >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/5/2012 12:33 AM, Jane Shevtsov wrote: >>>> >>>> Fellow Ecologgers, >>>>> >>>>> Have people read ESA's response to a proposed requirement that the >>>>> results >>>>> of federally funded research be publicly available, possibly after an >>>>> embargo period? It's available here. >>>>> http://www.esa.org/pao/****policyStatements/Letters/**<http://www.esa.org/pao/**policyStatements/Letters/**> >>>>> ESAResponsetoPublicAccessRFI20****11.pdf<http://www.esa.org/** >>>>> pao/policyStatements/Letters/**ESAResponsetoPublicAccessRFI20**11.pdf<http://www.esa.org/pao/policyStatements/Letters/ESAResponsetoPublicAccessRFI2011.pdf> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> I have to say I find this response somewhat disappointing. While some >>>>> of >>>>> the concerns raised in it are certainly valid, I believe it >>>>> underestimates >>>>> ecologists' desire to read an interesting new paper now rather than >>>>> later. >>>>> Also, kudos to ESA for allowing authors to freely post their papers >>>>> online, >>>>> something I relied on when I didn't have university journal access, but >>>>> how >>>>> is this financially different from open access? ESA's 2009 financial >>>>> statement (the latest available online) may be of interest. >>>>> http://www.esa.org/aboutesa/****docs/FS2009.pdf<http://www.esa.org/aboutesa/**docs/FS2009.pdf> >>>>> <http://www.**esa.org/aboutesa/docs/FS2009.**pdf<http://www.esa.org/aboutesa/docs/FS2009.pdf> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Jane Shevtsov >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> Matt Patterson >>>> MSES/MPA 2012 >>>> Indiana University School of Public and Environmental Affairs >>>> Center for the study of Institutions, Population and Environmental >>>> Change >>>> (CIPEC) >>>> Room 226A | 408 N Indiana Ave | Bloomington, IN 47408-3799 >>>> Environmentally Scientific Emblogulations<http://env-sci-** >>>> blog.blogspot. <http://env-sci-blog.blogspot.>** >>>> com<http://env-sci-blog.**blogspot.com<http://env-sci-blog.blogspot.com> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------- >>> Jane Shevtsov >>> Ecology Ph.D. candidate, University of Georgia >>> co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org >>> >>> "She has future plans and dreams at night. >>> They tell her life is hard; she says 'That's all right'." --Faith Hill, >>> "Wild One" >>> >> -- >> David McNeely >> > > > -- > Matt Patterson > MSES/MPA 2012 > Indiana University School of Public and Environmental Affairs > Center for the study of Institutions, Population and Environmental Change > (CIPEC) > Room 226A | 408 N Indiana Ave | Bloomington, IN 47408-3799 > Environmentally Scientific Emblogulations <http://env-sci-blog.blogspot.** > com <http://env-sci-blog.blogspot.com>> > -- ------------- Jane Shevtsov Ecology Ph.D. candidate, University of Georgia co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org "She has future plans and dreams at night. They tell her life is hard; she says 'That's all right'." --Faith Hill, "Wild One"
