"'Tis friction's brisk, rough rub [along with some grit], that provides the vital spark!" --Alexander Reid Martin
Effective squeaking is an art. WT "Agitate, agitate, AGITATE!" --Frederick Douglass' last words (if I remember correctly and my source was correct) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cynthia O'Rourke To: Wayne Tyson Cc: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:57 PM Subject: Re: Science Publications Review bias prevention Re: [ECOLOG-L] So what does the science say? ... Re: [ECOLOG-L] Gender issues It's apparently the norm in some fields, notably medicine, and I haven't heard of any ill effects, nor is it easy to imagine what the downsides could be for the general quality of publication. Maybe just not enough squeaky wheels? - Cynthia On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:45 PM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote: O'Rourke and Ecolog: Why isn't this a uniform policy? Bias has no place in science, but it's everywhere. In fact, I think the submittals should be blind as well, to ensure that papers are judged on merit only. Students could be used as screeners, with editors checking all submissions and the reasons for rejection/acceptance by the screeners, to keep costs and the editors' work loads down. Finally, of course, the authors' and reviewers' names should be published, and all comments published. There should be a reasonable amount of back and forth between the reviewers and authors in the blind, so that reviewers and authors can be frank. Nothing polishes like fine grit. WT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia O'Rourke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] So what does the science say? ... Re: [ECOLOG-L] Gender issues "Double-blind peer review, in which neither author nor reviewer identity are revealed, is rarely practised in ecology or evolution journals. However, in 2001, double-blind review was introduced by the journal Behavioral Ecology. Following this policy change, there was a significant increase in female first-authored papers, a pattern not observed in a very similar journal that provides reviewers with author information. No negative effects could be identified, suggesting that double-blind review should be considered by other journals." Budden et al. 2008 Double-blind review favours increased representation of female authors. Trends Ecol Evol 23(1):4-6 On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Denise Burchsted <[email protected]>wrote: Science faculty’s subtle gender biases favor male students http://www.pnas.org/content/**early/2012/09/14/1211286109<http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109> "science faculty from research-intensive universities rated the application materials of a student—who was randomly assigned either a male or female name—for a laboratory manager position. Faculty participants rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant. These participants also selected a higher starting salary and offered more career mentoring to the male applicant. The gender of the faculty participants did not affect responses, such that female and male faculty were equally likely to exhibit bias against the female student. " On 2/19/2013 4:15 PM, Hanberry, Brice B. wrote: Or is it (sexist)? See: Bias Is Hurting Women in Science, Panel Reports http://www.nytimes.com/2006/**09/19/science/19women.html?_r=**0<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/19/science/19women.html?_r=0> Five Years After an Incendiary Remark, Signs That Harvard Is More Welcoming to Women http://thechoice.blogs.**nytimes.com/2010/03/12/**harvard-2/<http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/harvard-2/> -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto: [email protected].**EDU <[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Jane Shevtsov Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:36 PM To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Gender issues Let's not forget that the original comment that triggered this whole discussion was made by a woman! I don't think it was intended to be sexist. It's not sexist to say, "In my experience, women tend to do X and would be better off doing Y". It may be accurate or inaccurate, but it's not sexist. Jane Shevtsov On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Leslie M. Adams <[email protected]>**wrote: Now, I am the one who must speak up and voice my support for Yvette (and Chandreyee). While no slight may have been intended, as a female scientist I too experienced the responses Yvette cites - and especially the one recently posted by Dr. Olden - as belittling and dismissive. There is considerable gender bias in the fields of ecology and biology and it is important to object to it whenever it arises; whether intentional or not. Perhaps it is easy to counsel "moving on" when you are unaffected by this handicap personally, but to say that it is somehow unsuitable or inappropriate to address on this listserv is ridiculous and dismisses the tremendously damaging effect this bias has on many, many lives. It is also not lost on me that the issue of gender has somehow arisen in a discussion of the skills necessary for landing a job in ecology. I would suggest that this is no coincidence. Leslie M. Adams, Ph.D. Adjunct Professor of Plant Systematics Professional Training and Development University of New Hampshire <http://home.comcast.net/~**leslie.adams/<http://home.comcast.net/~leslie.adams/> > http://home.comcast.net/~**leslie.adams/<http://home.comcast.net/~leslie.adams/> Home Office: 603 / 659-6177 Adjunct Associate Professor of Environmental Sustainability School of Undergraduate Studies (online) University of Maryland University College Adjunct Professor of Life Sciences Department of Liberal Arts New Hampshire Institute of Art "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:[email protected].**EDU <[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Julian Olden Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:04 PM To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] A Graduate Student’s Guide to Neces sary Skills for Landing a Job Hi Yvette, Apologies, but your interpretation of my suggestion is extremely misguided and flat-out wrong. My response was a cleaver way of saying that you can ignore the silly responses of particular ECO-LOGGERS (some of which have a track record of this behavior) by filtering your emails. Unfortunately your email has added fuel to a series of ECOLOG posts that have very little to do with the original premise of the Blickley et al. (2012). Let's all move on now. Cheers, Julian --- Julian D. Olden Freshwater Ecology & Conservation Lab School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences University of Washington, Seattle WA 98195 e:<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected], t: (206) 616-3112 < <tel:%28206%29%20616-3112> tel:%28206%29%20616-3112> w:<http://www.fish.washington.**edu/research/oldenlab/<http://www.fish.washington.edu/research/oldenlab/> > http://www.fish.washington.**edu/research/oldenlab/<http://www.fish.washington.edu/research/oldenlab/> skype: goldenolden "The face of the river . . . was not a book to be read once and thrown aside, for it had a new story to tell every day." < Mark Twain On 2/18/13 7:37 AM, "Yvette Dickinson" <<mailto: [email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: Like Chandreyee Mitra I was surprised by the comment included in Clara's list: "7. ...i am somewhat exercised by your post because, IMO, too many young, especially, female, applicants don't bring much to the table that others don't already know or that cannot be readily duplicated or that is mostly generalist-oriented..." This is a sentiment that I have heard before in other venues and find abhorrent. I initially chose not to comment on it here, but I do support Chandreyee's in her comment. However, I am disgusted by the response Chandreyee recieved. To be told to simply use your email filter and not worry your silly little head over such matters is offensive. The concerns Chandreyee raised are legitimate, and should be addressed with the gravity and respect they deserve. I would like to remind all readers of ESA's code of ethics, particularly principle g. "Ecologists will not discriminate against others, in the course of their work on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, marital status, creed, religion, race, color, national origin, age, economic status, disability, or organizational affiliation." Yvette Dickinson -- ------------- Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D. Mathematical Biology Curriculum Writer, UCLA co-founder,www.** worldbeyondborders.org <http://www.worldbeyondborders.org> "Those who say it cannot be done should not interfere with those who are doing it." --attributed to Robert Heinlein, George Bernard Shaw and others -- Cynthia O'Rourke Mendelson Lab Department of Biological Sciences, UMBC 615-389-1890 [email protected] ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5616 - Release Date: 02/19/13 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5616 - Release Date: 02/19/13
