I have a question regarding this: Suppose you take a full time job in something else to pay the bills but continue to volunteer your time in the sciences in the evenings and/or on the weekends? Would that still be okay? (I'm also in the same boat, I've been out of college for 2 years and still no full time job) -Angela
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Andrew Wright <[email protected]> wrote: > Let me put it another way, > > I know I have been turned down for a role purely because I had not been in > the field with the newest version of one particular piece of technology. > They told me this flat out when I asked why I did not have the job. This is > apparently without consideration that the skills required to use the lower > tech gear are actually more extensive. However, by stepping out of the > field to pay bills, I had missed that experience. Even if the other > employment does not count against you, the lack of continuous scientific > employment most definitely does. > > Best, > > Andrew > > > -- > Andrew Wright, Ph.D. > > "We don't have to save the world. The world is big enough to look after > itself. What we have to be concerned about is whether or not the world we > live in will be capable of sustaining us in it." Douglas Adams > > > On 30 July 2014 01:10, Malcolm McCallum <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Nonsense. > > You just have to apply to the right programs at the right time. > > Right now, the Academic community is facing catestrophic budget cuts. > > My time at TAMUT was ended with a 22.2% budget cut over two years. > > I watched all the staff be let go as UMKC was faced with budget cuts > > of around 18% from 2012 to 2013. Missouri universities are facing a > > special new pile of budget cuts now that the state congress gutted the > > tax support. I've worked in Illinois, Missouri, Texas, Arkansas and > > Louisiana. All are facing cuts, although AR actually cuts other > > things before education these days. > > > > I don't know who I will vote for when the next election comes around. > > But, I do know which party's primary I will vote in to eliminate the > > most dangerous anti-education, anti-science, anti-environment > > candidates before they become candidates. > > > > On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Andrew Wright <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > Hi Malcolm and all, > > > > > > This is all well and good, but I've been doing science on the side > while > > > paying bills and now my policy experience seems to count as a blot on > my > > CV > > > in efforts to get back into science proper. Academic employers seem to > > > consider such things unfavourable these days. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Andrew Wright, Ph.D. > > > > > > "We don't have to save the world. The world is big enough to look after > > > itself. What we have to be concerned about is whether or not the world > we > > > live in will be capable of sustaining us in it." Douglas Adams > > > > > > > > > On 29 July 2014 17:39, Malcolm McCallum < > > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Folks, > > >> there are two things here. > > >> > > >> 1) academic interests > > >> 2) employment. > > >> > > >> Looking for a job does not mean that you are leaving science. You are > > >> finding employment. Heck, Einstein did this too. I'm not sure Darwin > > >> ever spent a day employed in science. He was a ships mate and > > >> naturalist be default. Einstein worked in a patent office while doing > > >> his PHD. I just forgot his name, but one fairly prolific > > >> herpetologist made a living selling insurance. Also, as for teaching > > >> high school, I would argue this is not leaving science. I had a > > >> friend back in St. Louis who published state academy level stuff as a > > >> high school teacher. IT wasn't subjects for Nature or Science, but it > > >> was certainly legit. > > >> > > >> You got to pay the bills. > > >> I've held jobs as divergent as Associate professor (untenured) to > > >> being a janitor in a truck stop. Trust me, at times the > > >> responsibilities are not much different. I've taught kindergarten > > >> through doctoral students (PHD/MD). > > >> > > >> It is a constant struggle to remain or get employed in science. Part > > >> of it is because there really are a large number of very talented > > >> people out there. Part of it is because politicians cut budgets on > > >> anything non-military. Part of it is permanent faculty allowing admin > > >> to glut the institutions with temps and part-timers. All you can do > > >> is do your best. If you want to do science, it has nothing really to > > >> do with employment. However, if you want to be employed doing > > >> science, you are probably best to get a PHD. > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Osa Idehen <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >> > Hi Allison, > > >> > I feel your pain. After grad school (environmental science) I > picked a > > >> > job with a grassroots organization that help minority farmers and > > landowners > > >> > in rural area improve their economy. I took the job to be able to > pay > > bills, > > >> > while looking for other opportunities in science, but I ended up > > spending > > >> > five years. While on the job I found a way to remain in science-the > > >> > organization partners with universities on different research > projects > > >> > ranging from on-farm research to research in forestry land. The > > organization > > >> > links the universities with landowners and farmers on whom farm or > > land > > >> > on-site research projects were sited. I took advantage of it and > > >> > participated in the research projects. I even got a chance to work > on > > rural > > >> > medicine project. They also do a lot of policy work, which I was > > involved in > > >> > too. I finally went back to school last year with a renewed focus on > > science > > >> > and my experience in the last five years is now shaping my research > > >> > interests. Yes, I am still in science - working on interdisciplinary > > PhD > > >> > program. > > >> > > > >> > My advice is if you really love science, but can't find a job in > > science > > >> > right away choose a job that offers that opportunity to use your > > science: a > > >> > law firm looking for expert in your field, a non-profit doing work > in > > >> > relevant area, policy advocate organization, parks focused on > > >> > sustainability, USDA, tour guide at an ecological center, investment > > analyst > > >> > at a firm interested in science, construction company interested in > > habitat > > >> > restoration, preservation and/or sustainability, a film production > > company > > >> > focused on science, etc. > > >> > > > >> > All this will help you keep your science mind and you will still be > > >> > relevant when you finally find a science job. I would stay away > from a > > >> > career path that makes my years in grad school useless (unless of > > course I > > >> > hated grad degree). > > >> > > > >> > I wish you success. > > >> > > > >> > Sent from my iPad > > >> > > > >> > On Jul 28, 2014, at 3:36 PM, "Allison F. Walston" < > > [email protected]> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Hey everyone > > >> >> > > >> >> I graduated with my MS in ecology earlier this year and I was able > to > > >> >> get a > > >> >> temporary job after graduation. However, the job will be ending > > shortly > > >> >> and > > >> >> they won't be able to make any permanent hires in the foreseeable > > >> >> future. I > > >> >> have a few other irons in the fire, but I am growing increasingly > > >> >> skeptical > > >> >> that any of them will pan out. > > >> >> > > >> >> I know a lot of people are in a similar situation given the job > > market > > >> >> and > > >> >> I've recently started thinking about looking outside of science. I > > did > > >> >> well > > >> >> during grad school and gained a lot of analytical skills. However, > I > > >> >> can > > >> >> imagine the confusion my grad degree would cause for a potential > > >> >> employer > > >> >> outside of science/biology/conservation. > > >> >> > > >> >> Has anyone else made the decision to leave science shortly after > grad > > >> >> school? What sort of things are career paths are worth looking > into? > > >> >> > > >> >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > >> >> > > >> >> Allison > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Malcolm L. McCallum, PHD, REP > > >> Department of Environmental Studies > > >> University of Illinois at Springfield > > >> > > >> Managing Editor, > > >> Herpetological Conservation and Biology > > >> > > >> “Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich > > >> array of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a > > >> many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature > > >> lovers alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share > > >> as Americans.” > > >> -President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of > > >> 1973 into law. > > >> > > >> "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - > > >> Allan Nation > > >> > > >> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert > > >> 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, > > >> and pollution. > > >> 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction > > >> MAY help restore populations. > > >> 2022: Soylent Green is People! > > >> > > >> The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) > > >> Wealth w/o work > > >> Pleasure w/o conscience > > >> Knowledge w/o character > > >> Commerce w/o morality > > >> Science w/o humanity > > >> Worship w/o sacrifice > > >> Politics w/o principle > > >> > > >> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any > > >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > > >> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized > > >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > > >> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and > > >> destroy all copies of the original message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Malcolm L. McCallum, PHD, REP > > Department of Environmental Studies > > University of Illinois at Springfield > > > > Managing Editor, > > Herpetological Conservation and Biology > > > > “Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich > > array of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a > > many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature > > lovers alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share > > as Americans.” > > -President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of > > 1973 into law. > > > > "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - > > Allan Nation > > > > 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert > > 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, > > and pollution. > > 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction > > MAY help restore populations. > > 2022: Soylent Green is People! > > > > The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) > > Wealth w/o work > > Pleasure w/o conscience > > Knowledge w/o character > > Commerce w/o morality > > Science w/o humanity > > Worship w/o sacrifice > > Politics w/o principle > > > > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any > > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > > contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized > > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > > the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and > > destroy all copies of the original message. > > >
