Just to further elaborate. Your generality is probably very generally true, but, with an r-value of 0.26 to 0.43, it is VERY OBVIOUSLY not all inclusive, nor the end all of the discussion. Grades are important, but the environment in which the grades were obtained (academic environment, family environment, personal social environment, disadvantaged student) is certainly 100% a series of additional factors that contribute and explain why some people amazingly come into grad programs with lackluster or even poor gpas and end up having fairly large impacts on their field. In fact, a friend of mine graduated with a 2.36 undergrad gpa, grew up in a poor hispanic family and was a first generation college student. He walked into graduate school, got a 3.7 gpa, then took a job at Washington University as a tech, and today is a an MD after teh people on the committee realized he was an outlier. I also know of a biologist with a 2.33 undergrad gpa, who proceeded to have a 3.62 MS gpa, 3.57 PHD gpa and moved on to be a college professor who, while not a world scholar, has today become a fairly productive individual. I also know a butload of 4.0 students who came to grad school and were less-than-successful. In fact, I recall sitting in a class where one 4.0 student asked the professor teaching the class why hunting dogs were cryptically colored (Not sure who on here might have been in EvoEco with me back then!). The person lasted 1 semester. So, grades certainly ARE NOT the end all, because I in my very meager experiences have observed at least a dozen exceptions to the rule.
as shown here: Anderson, Ernest F., and Freeman A. Hrabowski. "Graduate school success of Black students from White colleges and Black colleges." *The Journal of Higher Education* (1977): 294-303. http://eblackcu.net/portal/archive/files/attrition-uiuc_c5c4eb9a67.pdf however, grades alone are not all telling of success as demonstrated in these studies.. Graduate student success in psychology. Hirschberg, Nancy; Itkin, Stuart American Psychologist, Vol 33(12), Dec 1978, 1083-109 Betts, Julian R., and Darlene Morell. "The determinants of undergraduate grade point average: The relative importance of family background, high school resources, and peer group effects." *Journal of human resources* (1999): 268-293. UNDERSTANT, this is not an excuse to blow off your grades. You need the best grades you can possible get. But, if your grades are somehow suppressed by the intersection of the circumstances under which they were obtained and the maturity level that you had to deal with these circumstances, they can explain the out-lier. Still, going back and retaking courses after graduation or supplementing them with more advanced levels can certainly help counteract the outcomes. Getting a C/D in Calculus II or intro to genetics followed up by an A in Calc III or Molecular genetics can go a long way to demonstrating there was more to your grade than is apparent. References also can do this. On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Malcolm McCallum < malcolm.mccallum.ta...@gmail.com> wrote: > > What is the R value? > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Kard, B <b.k...@okstate.edu> wrote: >> >> Low undergraduate grades strongly correlate with lack of success in grad >> school, period. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto: >> ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Malcolm McCallum >> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:25 PM >> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU >> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Graduate School GPA Question >> >> Yeah, well, that may be true at some levels, and it may be true of Google. >> But, how many ecologists does Google hire? >> >> The sciences require you to demonstrate excellence. You can overcome >> screw ups, everyone has them, even a strait A student. Each person has >> their skeletons, bruise spots and contrary opinions. The key is not being >> perfect, the key is demonstrating that you are more useful than those who >> think they are perfect. >> >> To be a good scientist, in theory, you must be strongly dedicated, highly >> motivated, capable of longterm and deep focus, of high energy, of high >> ethical standards and character, the kind that completes what you start, >> capable of insurmountable work loads, and you must have a high threshold >> for criticism. You must also be willing to stand up for what is right in >> the face of personal repercusions. NO ONE is great at all fo these things >> (and that is not a complete list). However, these key factors play an >> enormous role in your ultimate success. Providing evidence of your strong >> suits and willingness to strengthen the areas you know are not your strong >> suits are key things that will make you more competitive in the grad school >> market as well as the job force. >> >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Andrea Campanella <acamp...@nmsu.edu> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hi Angela and whoever might be interested in this topic: >> > >> > attached is a link that maybe will inspire somebody: >> > >> > >> > http://qz.com/180247/why-google-doesnt-care-about-hiring-top-college-g >> > raduates/ >> > >> > I believe that although it is important to do our best in everything >> > we do, some people just think differently from the majority and their >> > brain does not conform to established rules to which grades are a >> reflection of. >> > >> > In other words: some people really think out of the box and are those >> > who can make the difference. >> > >> > If you are one of them you will find your way to succeed with or >> > without a master. >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Andrea Campanella >> > Lead Field and Data Research Associate Alpine Treeline Warming >> > Experiment University of California, Merced >> > >> > “It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, >> > that is poor.” >> > -Lucius Annaeus Seneca (4 BC-AD 65). >> > “Tell me, and I will forget. Show me, and I will remember. Involve me, >> > and I will understand." >> > - Confucius 450 BC >> > "Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.” >> > ― Dalai Lama XIV >> > “If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping >> > with a mosquito.” >> > ― Dalai Lama XIV >> > “Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful >> > stroke of luck.” >> > ― Dalai Lama XIV >> > >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news < >> > ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU> on behalf of John L. Koprowski < >> > squir...@ag.arizona.edu> >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:32 PM >> > To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU >> > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Graduate School GPA Question >> > >> > Hello Angela: >> > Your dream is not dead but the potential pathways to the dream are >> > more limited. The 3.0 GPA is a requirement at some schools but there >> > are many schools that have lower requirements or at least have >> > flexibility in accepting students with marginal grade points but with >> > solid GRE scores and/or excellent experience. You will have to search >> > a bit more to find these schools. The great news is that there are >> > great faculty mentors at virtually any school that you would attend >> > due to a competition for faculty positions. The admission process for >> > many programs permits input from individual faculty and so you will >> > want to make sure to correspond with and likely visit faculty at >> > universities on your list so that they get to know you and realize >> > what you have to offer as the perfect fit for their research program. >> > Not all faculty will be interested in participating in the process but >> > the one's that are represent the type of mentor that you will want to >> > work with in your graduate program. Another method that can be used >> > is to enroll in graduate courses as an 'undeclared (not associated >> > with a specific graduate program)' graduate student if the university >> > permits (ours >> > does) and this will give you the opportunity to take classes that will >> > enable you to have a stronger GPA and get to know faculty. The >> > drawback is that you will have to pay for tuition; however, this can be >> a >> > worthwhile investment. Good luck as you try to find the right place >> > for you to continue your studies! John >> > >> > On 12/10/2014 9:46 AM, Angela Trenkle wrote: >> > > Dear Eco-loggers, >> > > I would like to go to graduate school to eventually get my >> > Master's. I >> > > have a lot of experience in my field, however as an undergraduate I >> > > had some setbacks so my GPA is below the 3.0 requirement that most >> > > schools >> > look >> > > for. Is my dream dead? Or are there ways that I can move past this >> > > and pursue my dream of getting my Master's? Thanks! >> > > -Angela Trenkle >> > >> > -- >> > Sincerely, >> > >> > John L. Koprowski, Professor >> > Wildlife Conservation and Management >> > School of Natural Resources and the Environment >> > 306 Biological Sciences East/127 Saguaro (Lab) University of Arizona >> > Tucson, AZ 85721 USA >> > >> > http://www.ag.arizona.edu/research/redsquirrel >> > http://www.snr.arizona.edu/people/koprowski >> > http://www.ag.arizona.edu/~squirrel >> > >> > Phone: (520) 626-5616 (messages) >> > >> >> >> -- >> Malcolm L. McCallum, PHD, REP >> >> >> “Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich array >> of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a >> many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature lovers >> alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share as >> Americans.” >> -President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of 1973 >> into law. >> >> "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - >> Allan >> Nation >> >> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert >> 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, >> and pollution. >> 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction >> MAY help restore populations. >> 2022: Soylent Green is People! >> >> The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) >> Wealth w/o work >> Pleasure w/o conscience >> Knowledge w/o character >> Commerce w/o morality >> Science w/o humanity >> Worship w/o sacrifice >> Politics w/o principle >> >> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and >> destroy all copies of the original message. >> > > > -- > Malcolm L. McCallum, PHD, REP > > > “Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich array > of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a > many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature lovers > alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share as Americans.” > -President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of 1973 > into law. > > "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - > Allan Nation > > 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert > 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, > and pollution. > 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction > MAY help restore populations. > 2022: Soylent Green is People! > > The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) > Wealth w/o work > Pleasure w/o conscience > Knowledge w/o character > Commerce w/o morality > Science w/o humanity > Worship w/o sacrifice > Politics w/o principle > > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any > attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may > contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and > destroy all copies of the original message. > -- Malcolm L. McCallum, PHD, REP “Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich array of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature lovers alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share as Americans.” -President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of 1973 into law. "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: Soylent Green is People! The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) Wealth w/o work Pleasure w/o conscience Knowledge w/o character Commerce w/o morality Science w/o humanity Worship w/o sacrifice Politics w/o principle Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
