Mark Mynsted wrote:
> > code (barring *crippling* installation problems in the case of microsoft IIS). It
> > would be quite easy to make a good 'data-bound' style library which would fetch
> > ECS objects from a database. For example, rather than using client-side
> > connectivity (ala microsoft) to connect to a server when you click an option
> > button on a form, it is very easy to come up with a library that returns an ECS
> > object from a fetch on the server-side this is then served up when the request is
> > reached at the server.
>
> An interesting idea. How would you implement that? An EJB implementation sounds
>like a good option. What do you think?
>
That is the question.
>
> >>> Robert Burrell Donkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/4/2000 5:03:15 PM >>>
> Apologies for butting in... I'm a bit late but I thought that things were
> starting to get interesting! That's before everybody started agreeing ;-)
>
> I have a few observations from a slightly different perspective. Can I make clear
> that I am familiar with the reasons behind separation of content and presentation
> - and I totally agree. (That's What They All Say!) I just think that maybe the
> case has for 'no-html-for-engineers' has been overstated in this thread. There
> are always exceptions - and there are some cases where an archetecture enforcing
> strict separation is suboptimal. Using ECS in servlets isn't *wrong* it's just
> that in many cases (and most internet web sites) it's simply not the best way to
> produce a cool site.
>
> I have an interest in web-applications using browsers as clients. In today's
> modern hetrogenous networking environments, it makes a great deal of sense - and
> hey, people might even be able to view information over the web :-)
> There are several reasons why (or...when) separation at the HTML level makes less
> sense for these types of site:
> 1. Content is much more important than presentation.
> 2. Information systems, or data access systems running against legacy databases
> typically have very large numbers of tables. The project will get now where if
> each input form and tabular results page is specially presentated. Typically,
> specially significant or well-used pages will get the full treatment. The best
> that the majority can hope for is to be 'styled' by a presentation artist.
>
> I have had some good results from playing around with ECS and servlets in this
> context. You see, the main alternative is not really stuff like turbine etc. but
> scripting-hybrids (PHP or any of that microsoft rubbish). They fall down from the
> fact that they cannot really take advantage of code-reuse and object-oriented
> code (barring *crippling* installation problems in the case of microsoft IIS). It
> would be quite easy to make a good 'data-bound' style library which would fetch
> ECS objects from a database. For example, rather than using client-side
> connectivity (ala microsoft) to connect to a server when you click an option
> button on a form, it is very easy to come up with a library that returns an ECS
> object from a fetch on the server-side this is then served up when the request is
> reached at the server.
>
> What I've always wondered about is actually the best way to integrate this into a
> development framework...
>
> Jon Stevens wrote:
>
> > on 10/3/2000 7:46 AM, "Conneen, Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Great comment "I'm only trying to help you not make the same mistakes I did
> > > by helping provide solutions that are based on learning from previous
> > > mistakes.".. That is why the web is where it is today! However, sometimes
> > > the knowledge is won not in knowing the end result, but stumbling along the
> > > way. I think we'll catch up to where the Apache dudes are today.. but when
> > > we do get there, you guys will be on to the next generation.. and thankfully
> > > so!
> >
> > So, one lesson I learned is that stumbling along the way isn't necessarily
> > the best way to go anymore. :-) I learned that lesson and decided to accept
> > the advice of people who know more than I do (or whom have more experience
> > than I do) right away instead of continuing to stumble along. It has saved
> > me a lot of pain and suffering. :-)
> >
> > Like you said, "That is why the web is where it is today!". If you let it,
> > it can be the largest resource of valuable information available to you
> > ever! Take advantage of that FREE knowledge as even your parents certainly
> > were not able to (it just didn't exist like it does today).
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > -jon
> >
> > --
> > http://scarab.tigris.org/ | http://noodle.tigris.org/
> > http://java.apache.org/ | http://java.apache.org/turbine/
> > http://www.working-dogs.com/ | http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/
> > http://www.collab.net/ | http://www.sourcexchange.com/
> >
> > --
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