On Jul 19, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Bill Chessman wrote:

> 3. If it is EDIFACT, then yes, it is possible for DTM+2 to exist.

Sadly enough Bill is correct, even if it makes no sense to only send  
the qualifier :-(

> (Although it might not mean anything, the segment definition up  
> through
> version D.05B does not require any of the other sub-elements to  
> appear.)

There is an exception the D90.2 directory, also known as the QC  
output. This directory was the one that defined for EDIFACT the  
concept of a format qualifier for the value filed first used in the  
new DTM segment.

Here is a short history recap regarding the changes that EDIFACT DTM  
segment has undergone since it was first created in the 88.1 directory.

DTM was defined before D90.2 in D88.1 and D90.1 as:

   DTM  DATE/TIME REFERENCE                                       88.1

Function: To specify pertinent dates and times

     2005  DATE/TIME QUALIFIER                       M  an..3  id 1  3
     2001  DATE, CODED                               C  n6     n  6  6
     2002  TIME                                      C  n4     n  4  4
     2461  TIME ZONE SPECIFIER, CODED                C  an3    an 3  3


The D90.2 directory defined the DTM with all date element as  
mandatory since the designers were positive that without all 3  
elements having values one could not evaluate the content correctly  
(BTW this version was used in the design of the X12 DTM segment):

* DTM  DATE/TIME/PERIOD                                  (88.1) 90.2

    Function: To specify date, time, period.

    C507 DATE/TIME/PERIOD                                     M
    2005   Date/time/period qualifier                         M  an..3
    2782   Date/time/period                                   M  an..35
    2781   Date/time/period format qualifier                  M  an..3


However that change was short lived as a number of users complained  
that their business case would not require the need for a value in  
the date/time/period d/e and/or the format qualifier. No examples  
were ever provided to support such claims nor has anyone ever seen  
such a case in real life. The end result, due to the political  
pressure existing at that time, was that the D91.1 directory  
contained the new DTM which allowed only the qualifier to be send:

DTM  DATE/TIME/PERIOD                                          (91.1)

   Function: To specify date, time, period.

* C507 DATE/TIME/PERIOD                                       M
   2005   Date/time/period qualifier                           M an..3
   2380   Date/time/period                                     C an..35
   2379   Date/time/period format qualifier                    C an..3


Today the DTM segment has undergone a few naming adjustment but other  
then that still is the same regarding is conditional use of the last  
two data elements.

        DTM  DATE/TIME/PERIOD

        Function: To specify date, and/or time, or period.

010    C507 DATE/TIME/PERIOD                           M    1
        2005  Date or time or period function code
              qualifier                                 M      an..3
        2380  Date or time or period text               C      an..35
        2379  Date or time or period format code        C      an..3

A sidebar note, after the creation of the 9735 Version 4, the  
suggestion was made to correct this someone ambiguous definition with  
adding dependency notes to the C507 composite that would at least  
define the need for a value within d/e 2380 if a format qualifier was  
present in d/e 2379. The suggestion was ignored as the users wanted  
backward compatibility more then functionally correct defined  
segments/composites.

-Klaus





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