I agree, we are all biased. My comment was based on his situation and what most folks are using these days. Nobody uses every product a company makes. You can install the ones you want and ditch the ones your don't. I don't think that's "crap".
I think we are comparing apples and oranges in a way. There are strengths and weakness to all of the products offered. Just depends on what you want to do. GIS is not the answer for a lot of folks as demonstrated in this thread. I also think Axway is overlooked a lot because they aren't as flashy as some of the others. That's my 2 cents. Shawn On Jan 15, 2008 5:27 PM, Mario Zambrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is why I didn't want to post to this board, everyone has an opinion > and we are all biased based on our own experience. > > Synchrony products so far. > Gateway - Don't know if you've seen it, their main communications gateway > before they bought Interchange. > Monitor - previously transfer - or CFT. > Sentinel - Bam dashboard Solution. Which is a huge monster by the way. > Interchange - Previously Cyclone Interchange. > Activator - Client limited version of Interchange. > Passport - TPM solution > Their own PGP solution. > Integrator - message broker > Their Monitoring and Alerting management tool - XOC > The broadcasting server solution, for broadcasting components. > Their web services solution XPM, which is an application layer on top of > everything else. > Do you want me to go on, I can also tell you which company they bought > their products from. > > I have to admit, their original solution for MFT is very nice. > That would be: > Gateway - Transfer(CFT) - and Sentinel. > These three are a very nice solution for MFT. > Seems like these were developed by the same team in France, the others > they just glued together. > > By the way, I liked Integrator, but when they moved to version 3.0 and > added the Java capabilities the application began to suffer with > performance. > Which is never did with the old version of Integrator. > > I'm aware of the java JBC they put in place last year, but again, back to > coding to get things done. > The point is to get away from having to write code in order to get things > done. > > I like Axway, actually I think they have some of the most intelligent > people in the industry. > What I don't like is their products lack of integration. Please, don't > give me the "specialization componetized crap". > I've been on this field far too long to eat that. > > The people working for Axway, at least on the Services area that I used to > implement the Axway solution were awesome! > But there's only so much an intelligent person can do before they begin to > suffer by the products the support. > > Regards, > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Shawn Aker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:03:09 PM > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Sterling GIS > > Synchrony Axway's 14 solutions, eh? I'd say three. Interchange, Sentinel, > and Integrator. It's component driven so it's use what you need. You do > make some good points. Axway's latest integrator supports Message > builder but is based on java. Every translator has a language, though. > Sterling has purple 4GL if I remember correctly. > > I believe you have to buy the PGP "module" which is exactly what you said > - > nothing more then a link and place for certificates. It was way over > priced > so we went the confusing cheap way. If you have PGP, make sure you > negotiate it in when you buy GIS - we didn't. It sounded like most of the > time they threw it in when I was talking to support. > > Shawn > > On Jan 15, 2008 2:32 PM, Mario Zambrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I don't know if you can say I'm defending it. I'm only stating what > we've > > done. > > Let me just say this: We tried Webmethods 6.0, and it was a massive > > failure with our amount of EDI, so we only left webmethods for our EAI > > solution. Limited though since we never really got of the ground with > out > > pub/subscribe models. > > > > Then we looked at Axway: holy smokes! Talk about complicated. With Axway > > you have to learn almost all 14 of their solutions. And for EDI, good > luck > > using Synchrony Integrator. Plus they had all kinds of different > platforms. > > Some stuff was C based, some was their own propietary language something > > called MessageBuilder MB, and very little was Java. Not too mentioned > the > > inmense amount work it took to coordinate all their products. > > > > Eventually though, their MFT solutions was ok. > > > > Then one architect in our team decided that we should move away from > > Webmethods, and brought in IBM Websphere. I'm not going to comment about > > this experience. > > > > We also have Tumbleweed doing some of our FTP Server stuff. Very nice > > little product, for only for FTP and HTTP comms with their client. > > > > And well, GIS when it comes to EDI is still the best product out there > > from all points of view. > > > > And about PGP not being turn key, I'm sorry to say, but you should try > to > > get some training instead of trying to figure things out yourself. > > PGP in GIS is nothing but an Adapter to an external implementation of > PGP > > by some very popular vendors, and several of those are Free PGP > > implementations. > > It takes about 1 hour to install, and about 30 minutes to setup. And > once > > you have the keys for the exchange, you can be exchanging documents > > extremely quick. > > No programming, is mostly what I meant. > > > > Just remember what I said, if you have Gentran doing your EDI today, and > > it's working for you, don't fix what's not broken. > > The comment made about needing some insane amount of hardware to process > > things is GIS has some thruth to it. We do have insame amount of > hardware, > > including our Oracle RAC instance and our cluster. > > > > But I have to say, from a functional perspective it has worked well. > > > > You have to pick your poison, Flexibility = Complexity = Long > development > > cycle. > > or Ease of use = Functionality = Quicker implementation cycle. > > > > Anway; I hope this helped. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Steven Santillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Mario Zambrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:29:56 AM > > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Sterling GIS > > > > You are the first person to defend GIS in a long time. > > My company is looking to replace Webmethods, Gentran > > Server, and Mercator with GIS but with all the > > negative stuff from this group regarding GIS I am > > starting to look at other solutions. More people using > > GIS need to defend it. > > > > > > --- Mario Zambrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Sorry, I sent the message before I was finished. > > > Please see the completed message below. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Mario Zambrano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:19:21 PM > > > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] Sterling GIS > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > I'm amazed by the incredible amount of > > > mis-information going on around GIS in this thread. > > > Here are the top Vendors for the complete > > > Integration Suite Solution. > > > Sterling Commerce > > > Axway > > > Webmethods (now Software AG) > > > IBM WebSphere > > > Tibco > > > Seeburger > > > All other are what we call niche players, since > > > they don't support all of the necessary technologies > > > to do integration as a whole. > > > Such vendors include - Tumbleweed, Cleo, NewBridges, > > > Inovis, Etc.. > > > We use GIS 4.2 and process millions of transactions > > > through it. I'm not sure if I can say the name of > > > the company I work for? > > > > > > Anyway; Here are is a quick list of things to know > > > about GIS. > > > > > > GIS is the new integration broker suite that > > > Sterling is heavely investing on. It's an SOA based > > > architecture (J2EE) of course that means Java > > > based. It's horizontally scalable, Database Centric > > > (Oracle, MSSQL, Mysql, DB2, Etc) > > > Since it's java, then it's multiplatform. So > > > Sterling doesn't have to continue to manage code > > > bases for all kinds of platforms. (MVS, Unix, > > > Windows,AS400, etc) > > > GIS 4.2 and now 4.3 integrates the Communication's > > > stack with the translation functions, all in one > > > process(Which business process). This is why it > > > beats the old technology Gentran:Server which was > > > essentially all kinds of scripts running one after > > > the other without managing system resources like > > > database pools, and cached objects. > > > GIS 4.2 is meant to be a more graphical friendly > > > approach to developement with their business process > > > development. > > > GIS 4.2 supports the following communications. > > > (EDIINT - AS/1/2/3,FTP/SSL Client services, SSH > > > Client Services, FTP/SSL Server, SSH Server, HTTP > > > Server, HTTP client service, Webdav, Connect:Direct > > > Adapter, , Web file upload inteface from the > > > internet, Etc....) > > > GIS also support Web Services, which would allow an > > > external trading partner to call a webservice to do > > > EDI translation, or anything else. > > > GIS Support certificate management, and also > > > external LDAP authentication support. > > > GIS Support PGP encryption almost turn key. > > > GIS 4.3 now support the creation of Fact Models > > > which allow you to create your own database schema > > > to capture EDI transactional information. > > > GIS is has a mailboxing system which allows you to > > > manage store and forward capabilities. > > > GIS has workflow capabilities with it's web > > > extensions, which allow you to have human > > > interaction for the approval or revision of > > > transactions. > > > GIS Support ERP shops with SAP, Oracle, Webmethods, > > > Tibco, Websphere, and other types of application > > > adapters. > > > There are so many other things that GIS is > > > supporting > > > GIS is not a replacement for Gentran:Server. > > > Gentran:Server was mostly a peer to peer translator. > > > All of G:Server's functions can be done by GIS. > > > > > > I saw someone asking why GIS costs 200k, and I > > > understand the question from an EDi person who's > > > only dealt with Gentran or other EDI translation > > > products. > > > But GIS is a full integration suite, which is why > > > Gartner ranks it high for B2B Gateway Solution. That > > > includes all things to do with Integration, not just > > > EDI. > > > For the most part these suites will all of it's > > > components will cost around $600k. > > > > > > I also saw someone mentioned the Gartner report that > > > people understood to be negative from Gartner > > > regarding GIS. > > > So, I guess is depends who you talk to. > > > That report was warning customer to thing before > > > they move to GIS, mostly because GIS was so much > > > more than Gentran:Server. And people were buying GIS > > > strictly for EDI. That I think is still a mistake, > > > because if a shop has Gentran:Server and it's > > > working fine, and their business requirements don't > > > demand much more than EDI processing you probably > > > should not migrate your EDI operation. > > > You could buy GIS stricly for communications, or > > > Managed File Transfer. > > > > > > Sterling will continue to support Gentran:Server for > > > the long term. > > > > > > However; if a new customer comes in asking for an > > > EDI solution, Sterling will probably not sell them > > > Gentran:Server but rather GIS. It doesn't take much > > > to see why. > > > > > > Anyway; I hope all this helps clarify things. > > > > > > GIS is far more than Gentran:Server. For those of > > > your that used Sterling products before here is > > > something that will help you understand. > > > > > > Old Technology: Gentran:Server Unix, Gentran:Server > > > Windows NT, Connect:Direct MVS,Unix,Windows, > > > Connect:Enterprise Unix, MVS, Gentran:Director, > > > Gentran XML Option for Server, Gentran:Server SAP > > > Extensions, Lifecycle Database, Etc. > > > > > > New Technology: GIS > > > > > > Regards, > > > aemzmrz > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 9:47:30 PM > > > Subject: RE: [EDI-L] Sterling GIS > > > > > > Sorry the attachment got stripped from the first > > > email. > > > > > > Publication Date: 26 June 2007 ID Number: G00149357 > > > > > > Think Twice About Migrating From Sterling Commerce's > > > > > > Gentran:Server to Gentran Integration Suite > > > > > > Benoit J. Lheureux > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary. The full report can be bought > > > from Gartner > > > > > > > > > Ever since Sterling Commerce released Gentran > > > Integration Suite (GIS), > > > many of the > > > company's Gentran:Server (GS) customers have > > > struggled to understand the > > > > > > relationship between these products, and whether GS > > > applications can or > > > should be > > > ported to GIS. Because the port sometimes requires > > > extensive development > > > work, GS > > > customers should understand their GS application > > > migration options; if > > > they choose to > > > port, then they must set proper expectations for the > > > effort required. > > > > > > Key Findings > > > Sterling Commerce's explanation about the > > > relationship of GIS to GS > > > is, at best, > > > complicated. > > > GIS isn't a direct, functional upgrade product for > > > GS. > > > For many GS customers, there may be no good reason > > > to port their > > > electronic data > > > interchange (EDI) applications to GIS. > > > When the GS-to-GIS porting effort is substantial, > > > it creates an > > > opportunity for > > > competitors to bid alternative products to GIS. > > > > > > Recommendations > > > GS customers should carefully consider all options > > > prior to making a > > > GS-to-GIS > > > migration decision. > > > GS customers that want to migrate their EDI > > > applications to the > > > current GIS release > > > should ask Sterling Commerce for a detailed "gap > > > analysis" of the > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ... > > Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: > > <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> > > > > Job postings are welcome, but for job postings or requests for work: > > <JOBS> IS REQUIRED in the subject line as a prefix. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Shawn Aker > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ... > Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: > <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> > > Job postings are welcome, but for job postings or requests for work: > <JOBS> IS REQUIRED in the subject line as a prefix. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Regards, Shawn Aker [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ... Please use the following Message Identifiers as your subject prefix: <SALES>, <JOBS>, <LIST>, <TECH>, <MISC>, <EVENT>, <OFF-TOPIC> Job postings are welcome, but for job postings or requests for work: <JOBS> IS REQUIRED in the subject line as a prefix. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDI-L/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
