This is a question about estimation and interpretation of random effects. We would appreciate any comments or references. We are monitoring several physical variables used to describe stream health in over 200 streams in the NW. Monitoring will continue for several years, and data are collected by crews, of which there are several in each year and which change between years. Each stream will be measured once each season by one crew. We would like to be able to put a number on the precision of an observed stream value. To assess variability due to different crews (the "repeat" study), we have data from a study in which 7 crews sampled 6 streams for 30 or so variables; each crew sampled each stream. We fit a random effects model with stream, crew, and residual as random factors using PROC MIXED in SAS. We are interpreting the variance component estimate for crew as estimating variability due to crews; for stream as estimating variability among streams; and for residual as capturing the unique inconsistencies of different crews working in different streams. (But we are not positive that our interpretations are correct.) We computed "estimates" (BLUPs) for each stream and used the estimated "standard errors" to construct confidence intervals. At the moment, we are evaluating precision based on 1) the width of the confidence interval, 2) the width of the CI divided by the point estimate, and 3) the proportion of total variability attributed to crew+residual. To assess variability due to measuring streams at different times of the season (the "temporal" study), we have data from a study in which 3 crews each measured 3 different streams (thus, 9 different streams), at 3 times over the summer (each stream was measured by only one crew). We fit a random effects model with crew, stream within crew, and residual (which we considered as the date effect) as random factors, and acquired estimates both for each stream and for each crew at each stream. We are interpreting the variance component estimate for crew as estimating variability due to crews; for stream within crew as estimating variability among streams; and for residual as estimating variability due to dates. Because of the (really) small number of crews in the temporal study, we think that the estimate of crew variability in the repeat study likely is better than the estimate of crew variability in the temporal study. Our question is, how do we combine crew variability (from the repeat study) with temporal variability (from the temporal study) to obtain a measure of precision for any given stream measured by any given crew in any given year? Can we calculate an interval estimate? Thanks in advance for any help. Nick Bouwes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ================================================================= Instructions for joining and leaving this list and remarks about the problem of INAPPROPRIATE MESSAGES are available at http://jse.stat.ncsu.edu/ =================================================================