Re: Z Scores and stuff

[Sandra CHANDLER]

Well here is my two cents.  Get a TI-83.  a lot of the formulas you want are already programmed into it and by just entering data or mean, stdev, etc, you'll get a z value and also the p-value you need to do a hypothesis test.  I know it would be in addition to your palm pilot to carry around, but it might be worth it by saving you programming time. :-)   SR Chandler Mathematics Faculty TCC - Moss Campus [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onlinelearning.tcc.vccs.edu/faculty/tcchans/ -------------- "Mathematics is the alphabet with which God has written the universe." -- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)       ---you wrote Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:53:25 +0000 From: John Kane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Z Scores and stuff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Mark > > I contacted you directly to offer you some simple advice.  I suggested that > since the question you asked is very basic and that it is covered in even the > most basic books on statistics that you go to the nearest university library > and browse through BUSINESS STATISTICS texts.  I find that Business Stat > books are generally more easily read and they contain many clear, practical > worked out problems and examples. No he asked for the equation, fromula , algortih,  what ever, is the most appropriate term, to allow him to program the Z distribution  into a hand-held computer. > > I also suggested that you learn a little more before asking your questions > and that when asking a question you indicate what you have done to try to > solve the problem.  I don't think that this is a group that is in a position > to answer homework questions.  I would also suggest you speak with the > instructor.  Again, this is very basic stuff. Good then tell him what the equation is or where he can find it in a programable form. .  He did not appear to me to be trying to answer a 'homework' quetion, he wanted some information on the equation(s) that generate the standard tables found at the back of a lot of undergrad texts.  NOT quite the same thing. > Obviously you feel you can program you hand-held computer (PalmPilot?) if you > know the formulas and I believe you can.  It is really easy to do so given > the formulas you need but, without understanding how and what you are doing > when you use Z values you accomplish very little. > > I have my students xerox a copy of the Z table.  One sheet of paper contains > all the values you will ever need.  They know how to interpolate values if > that becomes necessary. I think this was Mark's complete point.  If he can progam it into his Palm Pilot he does not need to carry around the photocopies.    Personally I fail to see the difference is between a quick program or a table of figures (which to someone with Mark's expericence probably are just as unrelated to anything real) .  Except of course possible copyright violation in the photocopying?   At least if Mark has the equation(s) he can look at what is happening. Given a decent level of math he may understand it.  I am not a mathematician but just how difficult is it to understand the  z- distribution  equation from a table of values? > A Z value is, in many cases, simply a way of expressing how far apart two > measurements are.  The Z is based on how many standard deviations are > involved. He did not ask that.  Please read the question.  He may very well understand z-scores even after only 5 weeks of his psych course. However he asked: "How do I program this."   I may know what a 1-way anova "does'. Programing it, especially from the newer texts that don't seem to give the old computation forumulae we used to see is not as easy to work out.  Oh I can do it but it is a lot of work when an ng like this can probably supply most of what I need. > A simple example. > The Z become 3.5355.  The formula for calculating the probability value of a > Z of this size is rather complicated but should be available in many advanced > books on statistics.  It is simpler to use the table of Z values to come up > with the probability. > Is not a Z-value a Z-value? The question was how do you program it.  If the formula is availble why not give him the reference.   The question was how do you program it?  Obviously it can be done.  Where or not he can do it on a Palm Pilot is another matter but let him at least look at the fromula. > > There is more to simply programming to get this value, you must understand > one-tail and two-tail tests, null hypothesis, alternative hypothesis, simple > random sampling and why it is done, and other items. Bullshit.  He wanted to know how to program a Z-distribution.  Everything you are talking about is totally correct and totally irrelevant to the question. I am reminded of a time when I worked on an Easter Seal Camp.  I wanted to talk to the nurse.  I asked a councillor " Do you know where Helene is" 'Oh it's her day off'   Next councillor " Do you know where Helene is?"  "Oh it's her day off'.   I did 'not'  want to know if she was working, I wanted to know where she physically was.  The same blindness seems to be seen here. > > You have just started in the field of statistical analysis.  It is a very > powerful tool and, if used correctly (and understood) can be a great help to > those in the field of Psychology. > > If you would like, I believe I can provide you with the computer program > which allows you to end a Z value and determine the probability associated > with that value.  You may or may not decide that it is worth programming.  I > think that using a single seet table is a lot less work. > Well done.  That is exactly what he asked for! > > Just my two cents. > > GOD BLESS AMERICA > > Dr. Robert C. Knodt > 4949 Samish Way, #31 > Bellingham, WA 98226 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - -- ------------------ John Kane The Rideau Lakes, Ontario Canada