Re: [Edu-sig] The fate of raw_input() in Python 3000

[Brad Miller]

On Sep 8, 2006, at 4:27 PM, kirby urner wrote: On 9/8/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You're not making a monkey out of your mom, by making her loop through some little menu, oblivious of the language underneath, its logic and design.  You're "protecting you mother" (aka paradigm end user) from knowing *anything* about Python.  That's your goal, that's the whole point (i.e. end user = not a programmer). Just to clarify:  I think it *is* condescending to newbies to force them through a lot of raw_input scripts, since this is: (a) not state of the art from and end user's point of view nor is it (not GUI) (b) not state of the art "coding for self" idiom (which'd be more shell interactive) As teachers, we shouldn't be propagating the hidden assumptions that go with raw_input, i.e. that there's this class if people out there "too dumb" to know anything about namespaces or functions. I'm saying this'll all be common knowledge soon. We'll know about 'strings' just as surely as we know about 'numbers'. Why?  Because "computer literacy" is not just for some tiny inner circle.  It's just basic fluency.  Like my friend Gene Fowler puts it (paraphrasing):  any poet worth his or her salt should know about XML already. http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2006/08/more-cast.html I doubt many people on this list would claim that computer literacy is just for some inner circle.  But its clear to me that we are not in the same world. In my world I get first year college students that want to major in computer science that have zero experience with programming.   We get good bright young students from small towns and small schools.  They don't have Saturday Academy.  They don't even have computer classes to take in their high schools.  If they do, computer class is about how to use Word and Excel.  Unfortunately, In this world having strings and xml and modules be common knowledge isn't going to happen anytime soon. Brad Kirby _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig Bradley Miller Assistant Professor Computer Science Luther College Decorah, IA  52101 http://www.cs.luther.edu/~bmiller

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