I cannot let this pass... Freeman, I don't think YOU are a programmer, or
ever had a customer in your life.
First, I TEST THINGS BEFORE MAKING MY MIND... Have you got Sun's RI
clustered? I have Pramati Server Clustered, Orion clustered, and OAS in the
trash can.
Secondly, yes, with open source, you can modify, reverse engineer, and
everything else... but THIS IS NO EASY TASK! How many times did you do that?
How about NEVER! For must guys out here, that's not a choice. Another thing,
many of them containers are crappy, because they're not build bottom up,
they're actually CORBA App Servers modified to managed EJB's.... and they're
paying the price(at least, the major players). Yes, there are lower barriers
to entry, if you think every programmer is stupid enough to buy a product
just by reading the spec... But SOME OF US EVALUATE throughly BEFORE
buying... Bottom line is, there may be 100 App servers at the end of the
year, but a year later, this won't be so...
Oh, have YOU licensed Sun's RI...? I GUESS NOT.
BTW, I can make anything scale WITHOUT access to source code, I have a
disassembler here; I can modify any program, recompile it, and so forth...
I used to program Motorola 6500 with a 9V battery and two pieces of cable;
you CAN do it, you DON'T WANT TO, you WON'T... but as far as possibilities,
from a theoretical position, I can fly above the ground just by willing to
do so...
-----Original Message-----
From: Freeman Jackson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 1:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Clarifiaction please..
Aravind Naidu wrote:
> >
> > The reality is that it's going to take a couple of years to role
> > out real EJB
> > applications and alot of things are going to change by then.
> >
>
> I hate to get involved in such a subjective discussion, but I would like
to
> point out that "real EJB" applications are here now and I can give you
> plenty of examples of them with real users hammering away at them. And
they
> are all at Enterprise quality too.
I'm not advocating that Vendors make products using the J2EE RI but it can
be
done.
If you want to ignore this and the potential additional competition, because
of
lower barriers to entry, go ahead and do so. Basic business sense indicates
that
the barriers to entry are lowered because of the open source/J2EE RI.
> > So even if you can't sell the J2EE RI without first licensing it
> >from Sun, it still has alot of value for prototyping and
> >building products. As a vendor and system integrator, I have
> >found that all of the other containers are pretty much worthless.
>
> I also agree with Jean-Baptise's claim that J2EE RI, is what it is meant
to
> be, an RI. Not a production quality implementation. Where is your
> clustering, failover scenario ? How about a decent O/R mapping tool ? How
> about IDE support ? How about a test environment for unit testing ?
> All of the above and more, I get from my application server.
> Yes, you can use it for prototyping and even for some development....
>
Your to busy trying to make this a personal issue instead of a
business/engineering issue.
The bottom line is that a company can try to license the J2EE RI and add all
of
the above and effectively compete. Sun never said that you could not get a
J2EE
RI license if your approached them
>
> SUN don't want you to resell the RI, and will never do. That would mean it
> will compete against iPlanet. They are not stupid.
>
> Even the most ardent supporter of Tomcat (of which I am one) will agree
that
> it is not yet ready for production. (refer to the mailing list.) It is
just
> an RI and the only reason, SUN has agreed to giving it to the Apache
> foundation is that they know it will not compete against them with selling
> their Enterprise app server. That is where the big bickies are .
I don't think your a programmer because you would realize that programmers
can
make this stuff scale with access to source code. The bottom line is that
competition is tight!!!!!!!!!!!!
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