Hey I'm more than happy to develop... in fact thats what I enjoy doing most (what do you think I'm doing right now). But there's no point me developing something, and you developing the same thing, and us both facing the same problems. Why dont we get together, and write it together, that way we both benefit. Now, suppose that we start to do this, but we first do the right thing and stfw and find that someone has beaten us to it... lets use their code, oh, we find a bug in it, well, lets fix it, and hey presto - everyone wins... yes?
I'll also note at this point, that I'm no doubt pretty young in terms of experience across different systems, with basically all my experience in java, and I'm happy to admit that I'm no doubt naive in some areas... but hey - if I dont express my thoughts, no one will correct them (or provide another viewpoint).... cheers dim ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Harby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 10:23 AM Subject: Re: the truth about entity beans > But the sad thing is that the new IT seems to want no development (or as > little as possible). These frameworks you are mentioning whether > purchased or not are used by teams to develop apps. The new IT would > rather just buy something such as Siebel. > > > >From: "Dmitri Colebatch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "John Harby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: the truth about entity beans > >Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:59:48 +1000 > > > >I dont believe I mentioned buying anything... my argument in that email > >was > >that you shouldn't be re-inventing the wheel, or inventing a wheel that > >others also need. There are many useful open source frameworks out there > >that are valid alternatives to ejb... in terms of persistence and O/R > >mapping, castor comes to mind. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "John Harby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 8:50 AM > >Subject: Re: the truth about entity beans > > > > > > > Yeah, as some of my views of late integration has become the IT mantra. > > > Even the EJB container is not enough buy for IT. More and more are > >wanting > > > to buy and not build. Providers such as Siebel are actually offering > >entire > > > e-commerce sites "out of the box" (although I would expect a good deal > >of > > > effort to get these working ;)). Here is one site that is doing this > > > already: http://www.tidalwire.com/default.htm > > > > > > > > > >From: Dmitri Colebatch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: Dmitri Colebatch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Subject: Re: the truth about entity beans > > > >Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 08:21:00 +1000 > > > > > > > > > > > > transaction management, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to be more specific. JDBC does > > > > > > > transactions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, but it does not do transaction management. > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't explain it. Doing searches on the web seems to > > > > > suggest that there most references seem to think that there is > >little > >or > > > > > no difference. > > > > > > > > > > So perhaps you could provide an example or a reference that explains > >the > > > > > difference? > > > > > > > >The real difference (in my view) is the transparent (from a coding pov) > > > >support of XA. To be honest, I'm not sure what is meant by > >"transaction > > > >management" in this context. But here's my understanding of the > >advantages > > > >of ejb tx model: > > > > - XA support (can send JMS message and update db, or two dbs, in the > >one > > > >tx) > > > > - transaction demarkation (can have some methods that must execute > >in > > > >their own tx, and some that must create new tx, and some that never use > >a > > > >tx... and so on) > > > >both these features come without writing code. > > > > > > > > > I do not understand your point. I was trying to point out that > > > > > understanding how to configure the container so it uses those > >wonderful > > > > > features takes time. And is sometimes impossible. The alternative > >is > > > > > writing code to do some or all of the same thing. Presumably if > >someone > > > > > writes the code then they do understand how to use it. Naturally > >one > > > > > alternative is to hire and expert from the container vendor and have > > > > > them configure it correctly. But whether one figures it out > >themself > >or > > > > > hires an expert it still costs. And that step must be factored into > >the > > > > > calculation of the overall cost of the two alternatives. > > > > > > > >Ahh yes... and here's the real cruncher. OK, I'm more than happy for > > > >someone to say "framework X is more appropriate for my requirements > >than > > > >EJB", but saying "thats too hard to set up, and its cheaper to roll my > >own" > > > >is hard to see being entirely accurate. Writing your own framework (or > > > >worse still not using a framework) means you will have more lines of > >code > > > >to > > > >maintain, and hence more bugs to fix. Sure, EJB containers have bugs, > >but > > > >at least its not your responsibility to fix them. > > > > > > > >We are still yet to see a suggestion for an alternative framework in > >this > > > >thread. > > > > > > > >my 2c > > > > > > > >cheers > > > >dim > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > > > > > >=========================================================================== > > > To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the > >body > > > of the message "signoff EJB-INTEREST". For general help, send email to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help". > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > =========================================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body > of the message "signoff EJB-INTEREST". For general help, send email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help". > =========================================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "signoff EJB-INTEREST". For general help, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help".
