Hi Jack They are not "better regarded"in Europe. They have always been CB amps in the eyes of most hams.
Its mostly new hams from the CB band who like using these horrible amps. RM HF amps have terrible IMD performance especially under dynamic voice conditions. The positive reviews by well meaning hams are mostly flawed because they use incorrect measurement procedures. I cant see how any amp with -26db pep 3rd IMD figures is something that is acceptable for a high power amp. The dynamic on air IMD performance of these amps when used with the typically ham transceiver causes terrible splatter. Hams who run these amps are very easy to spot with a SDR receiver. I like others wont buy a solid state amp until the IMD performance at least matches the better tube amplifiers. The last thing we need to do as hams is crap in our own nest just because its modern or new! 73 John --- On Fri, 9/10/10, Jack Brabham <k...@att.net> wrote: > From: Jack Brabham <k...@att.net> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RM Italy BLA 1000 (was - KPA500) > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 3:15 PM > Seems like one of the list > regulars ran some test on a RM 200W amp > some months back, the gist of which was that it had > horrible IMD at its > rated power (200W) but had typical 13.8V IMD numbers > at 100W. > > So maybe it's actually a 1000W PEP amp and a some odd > hundred watt CW > amp, from a company with a poor reputation and no service > for $4 per > watt. What a deal. > > I think these amps are better regarded in the EU but they > probably > understand how to interpret Italian advertising than > we do over here. > > 73 Jack KZ5A > > > > On 9/10/2010 4:07 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > > Not true, Look at the new > offering from RMItaly DLA-1000, matched > > > pair of MRF157, > > > > RM Italy's specifications are an outright > fabrication. The MRF-157 > > is rated for 600 W PEP ... there is no way two of them > are going to > > make 1500 W CW/RTTY or 1500 W PEP SSB and be > clean. Of course RM > > Italy's "amplifiers" are notorious IMD generators. > > > > 73, > > > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > On 9/10/2010 4:38 PM, Mel Farrer wrote: > >> Not true, Look at the new offering from RMItaly > DLA-1000, matched pair > > > of MRF157, $4k ouch. > >> Mel > >> > >> --- On Fri, 9/10/10, Tony Fegan VE3QF<jafe...@rogers.com> wrote: > >> > >> From: Tony Fegan VE3QF<jafe...@rogers.com> > >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 > >> To: > >> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 12:22 PM > >> > >> Joe, > >> > >> Why not stack 4 KPA500's and use a combiner!!! > >> > >> 73 > >> Tony Fegan VE3QF > >> > >> On Fri-10-Sep-10 12:15 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV > wrote: > >>> Snip: > >>> The one vacant market niche - and one Elecraft > appear to have avoided - > >>> is the US "Legal Limit" solid state > segment. There are literally > >>> dozens of 500 - 600 watt solid state amps and > several good products > >>> at the 1000 W PEP level but there is nothing > that covers 160 - 6 > >>> at 1500 W CW/RTTY. > >>> > >>> 73, > >>> > >>> ... Joe, > W4TV > >>> > >>> > >>> On 9/10/2010 11:57 AM, Jack Brabham wrote: > >>>> Lew, > >>>> > >>>> Except for issues related to physical > size, most of your rationale for > >>>> not producing a 2KW amp seems equally > applicable to a 500W amp. > >>>> > >>>> The K3, from a marketing perspective, > played into a vacant market > >>>> niche. The Japanese companies > had focused on low-end, how cheap can > >>>> we make it radios or over-priced > bloated barges for the money is no > >>>> object crowd. > >>>> > >>>> There is still nothing out there that is > competitive with the K3 on a > >>>> price/performance basis. > >>>> > >>>> The amp market on the other hand doesn't > seem to have any vacant niches, > >>>> MFJ has the low end and mid-range covered > and there are a herd of > >>>> companies duking it out over the high end > market. > >>>> > >>>> There also doesn't seem to be much > technical performance differentiation > >>>> between the low, mid, and high end amps on > the market today. The > >>>> dollars/watt number for any particular > brand seems to be mostly driven > >>>> by how fancy a box the > amp is packaged in. > >>>> > >>>> So, I'm thinking that if Elecraft is > determined to get into the amp > >>>> market the KPA500 will hit most of the > product differentiators > >>>> available. It matches the > K3 appearance and size, maintains the high > >>>> portability factor, and can claim > some technical innovation for the > >>>> built-in PS. > >>>> > >>>> Considering that the principal product > differentiators are only germane > >>>> to K3 owners maybe the intended > market is primarily "existing K3 > >>>> owners", rather than the general amp > market. No doubt that will be > >>>> where the Lion's share of the sales go in > any case. > >>>> > >>>> Maybe the next Elecraft amp will be > something more powerful with an > >>>> external PS but still in the K3 box, > that would be interesting. > >>>> > >>>> 73 Jack KZ5A > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 9/10/2010 8:57 AM, Lew Phelps K6LMP > wrote: > >>>>> I think some of the folks who are > calling for gigawatt amplifiers (ok, full legal limit...) > are losing focus on one key fact: Elecraft has > prospered by making products that SOME hams want that NOBODY > else makes. The K3 is a perfect example: an exquisite > transceiver, quite arguably the best available at any price > if you're not a fan of big boxes with big buttons. It's > portable, can be expanded incrementally with modules to meet > any operator's specific needs, and it's 'way up in the upper > right hand corner of the value scatter graph (price on one > axis, performance on the other). > >>>>> > >>>>> So, what could Elecraft bring to the > 2KW amplifier market that would (a) differentiate it from > the others and (b)stay within the general confines of the K3 > "style", which means compact, efficient, modular > expandability, and (probably) fit within the K3 form > factor. > >>>>> > >>>>> You cannot build a 2KW amplifier that > meets those criteria. Modular? Yes; you could make the power > supply and an auto-tuner modular add-ons. Efficient? Yes. > Compact? No. K3 form factor? Not a chance. For > example, the Alpha 2KW amplifier measures 17.5w x 78.5h x > 19.75d. It weighs well over 50 lbs. It costs > $5000. There is no way to build a large-output amp > that will fit within the K3 form factor. the physical size > of components needed to handle that power makes it > impossible. > >>>>> > >>>>> So, some on this list essentially are > asking Elecraft to step outside its well-defined and highly > successful approach to the market and build a "me too" legal > limit amplifier that Elecraft could not meaningfully > distinguish from the competition, except for the nameplate. > Amplifiers are not that complex, compared to the K3. That > lack of complexity is exactly why this is not a market in > which Elecraft could compete successfully. There's no way to > meaningfully differentiate its 2KW amp from others, except > for the nameplate. Yes, they would "include" their superb > customer support as a product feature. But I don't think > they could bring enough differentiation from the Alpha, > Tokyo Hygain, and other high end amplifiers already on the > market to break into that market at a volume that would > support design and production costs. > >>>>> > >>>>> The folks in Aptos DO understand the > market. They are listening, and watching this dialogue. We > can keep that process productive by not asking Elecraft to > come out with a product that breaks the laws of physics. > It's a small company, with limited design resources. Let's > all encourage them to focus on new products that > realistically fit within the Elecraft market niche. > >>>>> > >>>>> my 3 cents worth (inflation, you > know...) > >>>>> > >>>>> Lew K6LMP > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wes > Stewart wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Right, 500W is hardly worthwhile. > Make it at least 2KW PEP. Got to make up for the tuner > and coax losses and to live on RTTY. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --- On Thu, 9/9/10, Greg<n...@cableone.net> > wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Free market feedback...bring > back the > >>>>>>> 1500 watt amp! 73 de > Greg-N4CC > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>>>>> Elecraft mailing list > >>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >>>>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>>>>> Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>>>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>>>> Elecraft mailing list > >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >>>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >>>>> > >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>>>> Please help support this email list: > http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>>>> > >>>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>>> Elecraft mailing list > >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >>>> > >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>>> > >>> > ______________________________________________________________ > >>> Elecraft mailing list > >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >>> > >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >>> > >> > ______________________________________________________________ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________________________ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
