Max, Perhaps my fault for being less clear than I should have been.
As I said to another person who replied to me, my interest is almost exclusively in 6 meter DX. So, what is important to me (and perhaps not to that many others) is better NB particularly on EME where I am currently limited in the size of array I can put up (currently 9 element LFA with no elevation). And, more sensitivity can only help. I am not debating at all that the new platform will have many capabilities beyond those of the K3S. But, they may be less of interest to me for my specific needs and interests. And, I applaud the Elecraft team for advancing the state of the art. 73, John WA1EAZ On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:36 PM, M. George <m.matthew.geo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > John, that's the beauty of it all... you can play now (or rather in the near > future) or you can wait and decide for yourself after all the ‘glorious > independent reviews come in' (grump around like the Grumpy Old K3 Grinch who > stole Christmas). "When I was a young man we used a K3 or a K3S and by golly > we loved it!!!!" You young whipper snappers with your new fangled K4 gizzo > radios! :) Is someone making you upgrade to a K4? Twisting your arm? You > totally missed the point. > > The K4 isn't ONLY about the receiver specs... maybe for you so you have no > choice but to wait... I get it... However if that was the case, then you > would have bought some other transceiver that has already exceeded some of > the K3S's specs. No? The point here is that there is far more to the new > platform than receiver specs alone and the potential truly leaves the > exhausted K3's processing and now static capabilities in the dust (Elecraft > is moving on whether you like it or not... that ship has already sailed!). > Plus sensitivity is only as good as the noise floor your antenna system > provides... I'm not aware of an HF antenna system that provides a ~-133dBm to > -145dBm MDS noise floor. So sensitivity is all relative to your antenna > system. Blocking dynamic range is far more important to me. It's time for > Elecraft to move on to a platform they can build on. I'm sure many will > shake their fist in the air, weep and wail and gnash their teeth, holding on > to the K3s for years and years to come (a testament to K3 success), but many > will be excited for what the K4 will bring and are willing to go along for > the ride right from the start. > > You can stomp your feet and do what you like...bark at the moon and pound > sand and continue to stick with the K3 until the end of times, nothing wrong > with that... try to convince yourself that the creators of the K3 can't do > any better. I'm in the camp that they have already done better and I want to > go along for that ride. Doing better includes far more capabilities than > dropping the MDS by a few dBm what will net nothing. Onward and upward I > say... it's exciting to see that there is and continues to be a market to > keep pushing the envelope in the HF transceiver market. > > Max NG7M > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 10:20 AM John Stengrevics <jstengrev...@comcast.net > <mailto:jstengrev...@comcast.net>> wrote: > POTENTIALLY better NR & NB will have to wait for hard data and independent > reviews. > > And, this will absolutely determine whether or not I transition from the K3S > to the K4 (along with improved sensitivity). > > 73, > > John > WA1EAZ > > > On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:43 AM, M. George <m.matthew.geo...@gmail.com > > <mailto:m.matthew.geo...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > It's not surprising that there many looking for all the information they > > can get on the K4 etc.. Here is a YouTube link that lists K3 related > > video 'Search > > for Elecraft K4 Sorted by Date for Video posted this year' > > <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4&sp=CAISBAgFEAE%253D > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4&sp=CAISBAgFEAE%253D>> > > : > > https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4&sp=CAISBAgFEAE%253D > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elecraft+k4&sp=CAISBAgFEAE%253D> > > > > Just use the filter option in YouTube in this case to narrow down the > > videos to the latest postings based on the search criteria to get the > > latest video by date. > > > > The first video in this list contains a lot of detail at 38 minutes long > > (Eric). (ELECRAFT K4 IN DEPTH with WA6HHQ at Waters & Stanton Ltd > > Portsmouth UK). Take the time and watch the whole video... there is a lot > > of detail in this one. > > > > For the questions that seem to persist about how the K4 will compare to the > > K3... you quickly begin to understand that the receiver specs will be > > similar to the K3S, especially once you understand the K4 design approach > > with the hyrbird direct sampling approach and superhet addition in the > > K4HD. At the same time, I'm not going to underestimate the potential for > > some eye popping numbers when the K4HD module is introduced. (think > > Third-Order Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced rankings). However if the specs > > are similar to the K3S or even a little better, it's becoming more clear to > > me that the K4 platform and it's future potential with advances and > > refinements in the software are where the real advantages are. Big leaps > > here over the K3S. Leaps that the K3S can simply never take do to the > > limited processing power. The K3 and K4 are not even in the same league in > > this area. > > > > You also begin to see the much higher potential the K4 has as far as noise > > reduction / noise blanking capability due to algorithms having access to a > > much wider bandpass with the SDR direct sampling approach. Just my > > opinion, but I suspect there will be some big improvements in these areas > > as compared to the K3/S line. The speed of the processing power and access > > to bandwidth will allow for better noise reduction etc... plus the software > > improvements over time and head room for processing power sets up the K4 > > for some big performance leaps improvements are made in software (IMHO). > > You can glean all of this from the videos (reading between the lines) in my > > opinion. i.e. Elecraft potentially adding the capability with diversity > > receive to do phase shifting to null out noise, similar to the capability > > you get with a NCC-2 box for example. And consider the design approach to > > upgrade the ADC processing... the K4 seems to be setup for a long life with > > some interesting improvements down the road, not only with the software, > > but think hardware processing upgrades too. > > > > I can't speak for anyone else, but since the K4 has been announced I have > > gone through a phase of trying to convince myself that the K4 isn't any > > better than my K3S, so why would I consider a K4? ($4K to $6K for a new > > rig sure isn't chump change and could be spent on other station > > improvements right?) As far as some of the tell-tell specs like dynamic > > range blocking with strong signals near your band-pass etc... I think with > > the K4HD, the specs will be similar, but overall, what is beginning to > > interest me is the amazing potential the K4 design has. We are talking > > about two very different animals here. (with the same linage) > > > > I have also spent a considerable amount of time looking at the direct > > sampling competitors and as I start to dig in, I'm really seeing some > > lacking features as they relate to a CW operator's rig. I guess I'm biased > > as a current Elecraft Fan-Boy / CW operator (I'll admit it), but when I > > look at what I would be giving up in regard to CW operating features that > > have become second nature to me, I think I would be very disappointed. If > > you spend some time in the competitors user groups you will understand what > > I'm talking about, but that's just me. Owners in these other groups have > > been begging for some common CW features that never seem to materialize. > > However competition is good and it's great to have options. You can't go > > too wrong with any of the high end rigs these days, including any of the > > direct sampling designs that are shipping now. > > > > So to end this tome of a post... if I had to place an order today for a new > > rig, it would be a an order for a K4. Wink / wink, maybe I already did. > > ;) And if I did, I'm happy to wait X number of months for the K4 to emerge > > only when it is ready for prime time. My trusty K3S at my side as I type > > away at the keyboard here will make the wait easy. Take your time Elecraft. > > > > Max NG7M > > > > > > > > -- > > M. George > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> > > Message delivered to jstengrev...@comcast.net > > <mailto:jstengrev...@comcast.net> > > > > -- > M. George ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
