Gregg, My understanding was that LOCAL Code requires its own standard/tests or an NRTL compliant product. For example, the City of Los Angeles used to require (or still does) that equipment placed in the city conform to the city code, or be UL Listed.
If this is not correct, I would like to know this! Thank you. Tania Grant taniagr...@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Kervill" <gr...@test4safety.com> To: <douglas_beckw...@mitel.com> Cc: "'Chris Chileshe'" <chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk>; <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:53 AM Subject: RE: CE Marking - Prototypes > > My understanding if that: > > where OSHA is applicable then UL or equivalent is mandatory. > > where OSHA is not application then Local Code is mandatory - and LOCAL Code > requires NRTL (UL or equivalent) > > The difference, I think, is slight but the result the same... > > Gregg > > ------Original Message----- > -From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > -[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of > -douglas_beckw...@mitel.com > -Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:40 AM > -To: Gregg Kervill > -Cc: 'Chris Chileshe'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > -Subject: RE: CE Marking - Prototypes > - > - > - > - > - > -From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 01/29/2002 08:39 AM > -Just a comment. UL approval is not mandatory in the US, > -although certain parties > -would like to think so. Safety approval by an OSHA accredited agency is > -mandatory. Some cities, such as Los Angeles have their own > -safety approval, and > -there are many organisations that provide safety approvals in > -the USA (CSA, > -Entela, ETL, Metlabs, to name a few). For PC peripheral cards, > -I have often seen > -the statement in UL reports that state that a product may only > -be used in > -conjunction with a "UL approved" chassis. The implication is > -that the use of the > -card in a chassis approved by other agencies is not > -acceptable, which is not the > -case. > -I am not knocking UL here because I believe that they do > -excellent work and > -their approval has many advantages. I am simply saying that > -they are not the > -only one. Unfortunately it is often communicated to potential > -customers at trade > -shows, that any other safety agency marking is somehow > -inferior to UL's. As we > -all know, this is not the case, but this sometime results in > -customers demanding > -approval by UL as well, imposing unneccessary costs on the > -manufacturer who has > -opted to use another agency such as CSA. > - > -Regards > - > -Doug Beckwith > -Own Opinions Only > - > - > - > - > -"Gregg Kervill" <gr...@test4safety.com> on 01/28/2002 09:13:13 PM > - > -Please respond to "Gregg Kervill" <gr...@test4safety.com> > - > -To: "'Chris Chileshe'" <chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk>, > - emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > -cc: (bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) > - > -Subject: RE: CE Marking - Prototypes > - > - > - > - > - > -PLEASE consider this in the context of what is expected in the > -US, from the > -UK. > - > -When I have exhibited the exhibition package will specify > -something about > -NOT connecting any equipment that is not UL Listed. Failure to > -adhere to > -this clause usually promised summery expulsion. > - > - > -So why should we not expect any less commitment to exhibiting > -from the US > -into Europe???? > - > -I agree there is a lot of non-compliant (and sometimes potentially > -dangerous) equipment on show but that should make us more cautious. > - > - > -PLEASE DO NOT add on big filters without considering (AND > -MEASURING) the > -issue of Earth Leakage. > - > -Similarly - make sure that you know the earth leakage current > -for each item > -that in in your booth. Otherwise your extension lead may fail > -to meet OSHA > -or the local code requirements. > - > - > - > -As for 'exploding' products - I was lecturing each morning and > -afternoon at > -an exhibition in London (product safety) and at 11:45 and 4:45 > -each day 50 > -people would leave the lecture hall and 'hit' the exhibition. > -On the last > -Friday I visited a PSU supplier near the lecture hall and > -asked him about a > -(non-compliant) product label. The poor guy nearly exploded. > -Every morning > -and afternoon 50 people came to his booth to tell him why his > -labels were > -non-compliant! > - > -True story and maybe a useful one - check out the local > -competition and list > -their non-compliances - then explain (to visitors) the > -mistakes that you > -have avoided - making sure NOT to mentions names. Point - Aim and Fire! > - > - > -Best regards > - > -Gregg > - > - > -------Original Message----- > --From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > --[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Chris Chileshe > --Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:11 AM > --To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > --Subject: RE: CE Marking - Prototypes > -- > -- > -- > --Regarding products for demo's and exhibitions, Enci writes .. > -- > -->> Therefore the application of CE Marking or lack thereof is > --meaningless. > -- > --You would think so wouldn't you. A small problem arises in > --that if you have > --competitors with a CE marked product, they will make it a > --point to display > --this and this means potential customers will be signing deals > --with them > --and not you because they have better and more reliable information on > --delivery dates. If you have no competitors, then you are OK. > -- > --CE marked or not, make sure that the product is safe and > --further, that it > --will not go bang when connected to a supply with everybody else's non > --compliant stuff. It might be an idea to take a large filter if > --one is affordable. > -- > --There is nothing quite as memorable as a product that explodes at an > --exhibition. In fact, it makes the exhibition worth attending > --the next time, > --and considering it has been the talk of the industry since the > --last time, you > --will get an unusually large crowd, and a quick check through their > --business cards will reveal they are competitors and not customers > --if the former exist! > -- > --Having said this much, I feel it important that I state that > --these experiences > --were not personal to me or my current or previous employers. > --That's the > --truth. > -- > --Best regards > -- > --- Chris > -- > -- > -------Original Message----- > --From: Enci [SMTP:e...@cinepower.com] > --Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:18 PM > --To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > --Subject: RE: CE Marking - Protoypes > -- > -- > -- > -- > --Well, I found the guide I was looking for, and the key issue is the > --"placing on the market" or "taking into service". The guide > --clearly states > --demonstrating at an exhibition is not considered to be placing on the > --market. It also says a notice is required, as descibed below. > --Therefore the > --application of CE Marking or lack thereof is meaningless. > -- > --Enci > -- > -- > -->Prototype, equipments for demostration aren't covered by the > --EMC or R&TTE > -->directive. > -->This is article 8.2 of RTTE a similar article exist in the > --EMC directive > -->"2. At trade fairs, exhibitions, demonstrations, etc., > -->Member States shall not create any obstacles to the > -->display of apparatus which does not comply with this > -->Directive, provided that a visible sign clearly indicates > -->that such apparatus may not be marketed or put into > -->service until it has been made to comply." > -->Ciao > -->Paolo > -- > -- > -- > --------------------------------------------- > --This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > --Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > -- > --Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > -- > --To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > -- majord...@ieee.org > --with the single line: > -- unsubscribe emc-pstc > -- > --For help, send mail to the list administrators: > -- Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > -- Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net > -- > --For policy questions, send mail to: > -- Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > -- Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > --All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > -- No longer online until our new server is brought online > --and the old messages are imported into the new server. > -- > --_______________________________________________________________ > --_________ > --This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > --service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > --anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > --http://www.star.net.uk > --_______________________________________________________________ > --_________ > -- > --_______________________________________________________________ > --_________ > --This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > --service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > --anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > --http://www.star.net.uk > --_______________________________________________________________ > --_________ > -- > --------------------------------------------- > --This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > --Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > -- > --Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > -- > --To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > -- majord...@ieee.org > --with the single line: > -- unsubscribe emc-pstc > -- > --For help, send mail to the list administrators: > -- Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > -- Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net > -- > --For policy questions, send mail to: > -- Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > -- Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > -- > --All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > -- No longer online until our new server is brought online > --and the old messages are imported into the new server. > -- > - > - > -------------------------------------------- > -This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > -Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > - > -Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > - > -To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > - majord...@ieee.org > -with the single line: > - unsubscribe emc-pstc > - > -For help, send mail to the list administrators: > - Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > - Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net > - > -For policy questions, send mail to: > - Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > - Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > - > -All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > - No longer online until our new server is brought online > -and the old messages > -are imported into the new server. > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > -------------------------------------------- > -This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > -Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > - > -Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > - > -To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > - majord...@ieee.org > -with the single line: > - unsubscribe emc-pstc > - > -For help, send mail to the list administrators: > - Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > - Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net > - > -For policy questions, send mail to: > - Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > - Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > - > -All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > - No longer online until our new server is brought online > -and the old messages are imported into the new server. > - > > > ------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. > ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
