Good question.
Two data points: Heaviside and Einstein.
Both were unconventional in their thinking.
Both were initially received with skepticism.
But both were right.
However, Heaviside was brilliant when young, but quite the crack-pot
when he
got older.
Also, Einstein's major contributions were all out in public by the time
he
was 30 yrs old.
So, the conclusion I draw is that yes, unconventional thinkers are
right, but
only when they are young.
Rats. Too late for me!!
Best Regards,
Patrick Conway, NCE.
281.514.2259
281.524.5473 (fax)
p.con...@hp.com
From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 3:55 AM
To: Conway, Patrick R (Houston); Sudhakar Wasnik; John Woodgate;
emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [JunkMail] 1500 ohms 100 pF gun?
So - does that mean that only unconventional engineers are right?? :-)
Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications Corp.
Tel: 303-706-5467
Fax: 303-799-6222
Cell: 303-204-2974
Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vext.com
Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com;
Email Alternate: chasgra...@ieee.org
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Conway,
Patrick R (Houston)
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:47 PM
To: Sudhakar Wasnik; John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [JunkMail] 1500 ohms 100 pF gun?
Ah, ha.
Glad to find another engineer who thinks like I do - unconventional!
anecdote-
One time I visited a large, well respected IT company who was having an
ESD
problem with a new product.
They could not release to production because they could not pass the
ESD test.
I made one change to their test procedure and they were able to pass.
Nothing spectacular really, just a little applied unconventional
thinking!
I observed that their test engineer was doing the test and then
discharging
the EUT after each strike (battery operated EUT).
The EUT passed each and every strike, but had an upset during his
connection
of the discharge wire.
The discharge wire had no resistors in line.
It was a straight dump to the horizontal coupling plane.
I explained to the team, showed them the failures were only during
post-test
charge dump.
I explained that the discharge event is uncontrolled.
It could have more ore less rise time, more or less fall time, more or
less
peak amplitude.
It is uncontrolled.
If they wanted to test with that waveform- no problem.
But it is not required for CE Mark (their target).
Everyone was happy!
Much rejoicing.
Anyway- clear evidence that even the post-test discharge needs to be
done
correctly.
And, evidence that more training is always a good thing!
Best Regards,
Patrick Conway, NCE.
281.514.2259
281.524.5473 (fax)
p.con...@hp.com
From: Sudhakar Wasnik [mailto:swas...@sandisk.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 3:14 AM
To: Conway, Patrick R (Houston); John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [JunkMail] 1500 ohms 100 pF gun?
You are correct sir,
The current flow is from higher potential to lower potential.
So with repetitive zaps, the system accumulates the charge (potential) higher
than Gun potential, So current will flow from Object being zapped to the Gun
(Source).
That's why standard requires removing the unspent charge from the EUT by
manual discharge before applying next zap.
If we consider this is same as lightening event, Then John is correct.
It is mysterious even to think that the earth (Load) (earth) will pump current
in to Clouds (Source) during repetitive lightening strikes.
Sudhakar Wasnik
Phone. : 408-542-2928
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Conway,
Patrick R (Houston)
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:15 AM
To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [JunkMail] 1500 ohms 100 pF gun?
<q>
I wonder if Michael would explain how the discharge energy gets back from the
equipment being zapped to the source. It seems very mysterious.
<q>
Actually, not mysterious at all.
But does require some thinking outside of what is considered "normal"
current
flow.
A simple experiment (real or just a thought experiment) can show the
answer.
Try this experiment- run a normal ESD test for table top equipment.
For this, doesn't matter what test standard.
Must use a battery operated EUT.
Make sure the EUT power cord is disconnected.
Now discharge the ESD simulator to the EUT one time.
Discharge works fine, no observable variance in the ESD.
But, continue to zap the device.
Notice that the observable characteristics of the ESD pulses become less
severe.
Smaller "pop" sound, plus the simulator tip has to get closer to the
device
to discharge.
Eventually, you can no longer discharge to the EUT.
So, what was happening?
For all of those discharges what was the "Return path", since the EUT
cord
was removed?
Why is it that the simulator no longer discharges?
Those last two questions have the same answer.
Maybe the normal loop model,
"source-destination-return-to-source", does not apply?
Hmm.
Best Regards,
Patrick Conway, NCE.
281.514.2259
281.524.5473 (fax)
p.con...@hp.com
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