Rich, You are wise beyond your years. I love your email about the history of the "0" and "1". We have all sat around the conference room table with the design team all scratching our heads on what symbol(s) to use on buttons and switches and end up using something we don't know is right or not. Thank God for the Stand-by symbol for it can be used in most applications for push buttons. Not so clear on toggle switched that do not connect or disconnect from the mains. We are seeing more and more use of the "|", "O", and the 5010 symbol being used in non-mains applications, usually for the lack of a better symbol. And yes, people have learned what button to push to turn on and off their electronic devices. I assume as long as people can figure it out and people are not getting killed, these symbols will continue to be used. Personally, I would prefer to see new symbols for non-mains on/off switches or update the 417 standard to allow these symbols to be used as they are being used today. Back to the original email, I assume some NRTL or national test lab in Japan is telling companies to use the “I” + “/” + “Standby symbol”. I believe this would be ok for a toggle type switch, but for a push-push switches, just the Standby symbol alone would be correct. The Other Brian "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." - Willy Wonka
_____ From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of rn...@san.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:50 PM To: Kunde, Brian; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Symbol on power button Hi Other Brian: You raise some interesting points. With regard to IEC 5009... You describe the function as when the switch is operated, the "standby" mode is turned "on." Okay. The two positions would be: "standby on, function off" "standby off, function on" I view the function as toggling between two modes, "standby" and "on." They're both the same, aren't they? With regard to IEC 5010... This symbol is for a push-push switch, where one position is on, and the other position is off. In this case, and in accordance with IEC 60417, the off position directly disconnects power from the remainder of the equipment. My cell phone switch is marked with this symbol. Clearly, though, this switch does not disconnect the power; some functions remain on until I push another button. In accordance with 60417, the switch should be marked with the 5009 symbol. HOWEVER... regardless of the symbol, we have all figured out what each such switch does, and when and how to use it! Best regards, Rich From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:32 AM To: Scott Xe; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Symbol on power button The standby symbol as well as several others are being used incorrectly according to the original intent, but due to the lack of a better symbol, they are being used to indicate a logical on/off instead of its intended relationship with the disconnection or non-disconnection from the AC Mains. I have always thought the stand-a-lone "Standby Symbol" was confusing the way it is often being used. Originally, this symbol would be used on a button or switch that when pressed or turned ON would put the device into a Standby State (no disconnection from the mains). But today, the symbol is used to turn ON a device where the OFF state is really standby (this is backward from my way of thinking). I think the “I” + “/” + “Standby symbol” that is now showing up on consumer electronic devices, they are trying to indicate that the two states of the button is On or Standby. but by definition, the Standby symbol means either On or Standby, so I do not see any reason to use anything but the stand-a-lone standby symbol. My Cell phone used the IEC5010 symbol ("|" inside the "O") which traditionally is used on push-button ON/OFF switches that are also disconnect devices. So in my way of thinking, this is not the correct symbol to use on a battery operated device, but like I said before, these symbols are being used for logical ON/OFF because a better symbol that is recognizable for the On/Off function is not available. The Other Brian _____ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott Xe Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:26 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Symbol on power button I notice that “I” + “/” + “Standby symbol” is on the power button (actually not fully power off & in standby state). It appears on lots of Japanese made products. What is the meaning in terms of technical aspects? According to IEC 5009, it should be a “Standby Symbol” only. Your guidance is appreciated. Regards, Scott - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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