"So our EMC reports do “freeze” a state of the product, by listing all relevant (in our opinion) construction details." Test Reports from independent test laboratories should NEVER, NEVER EVER, incorporate subjective opinions. It is your duty to identify the EUT by means of serial numbers, h/w & s/w revisions, photographs, objective descriptions, declarations of the build from the client etc., and describe the test configuration and set-up by means of diagrams, photographs, operating instructions etc. In fact, accreditation bodies expressly prohibit independent laboratories from expressing opinions. Assistance in identifying EMC critical design elements would be a consultancy service and could only be conducted in collaboration with the design authority. That same consultancy organisation cannot produce an independent test report. T ----- Original Message ----- From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: 03/20/13 08:48 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Critical component in EMC report
EMC testing is a service to our clients, so as to allow them to sign their Declaration of Compliance/conformance. The EMC test report needs to enable our customer to efficiently and accurately create compliant products. A problem with many small and medium enterprises is that they actually do not know what they exactly offered for testing. BOMs with almost unspecified parts are common. Mechanical drawings of the enclosure are often missing and I have yet to see a customer provide me with a professional grounding diagram for EMC. (Listing materials, paintings and EMC fixtures for example) In fact most customers do NOT know what parts of the equipment are relevant for EMC. How ever can they produce compliant products ? So our EMC reports do “freeze” a state of the product, by listing all relevant (in our opinion) construction details. Starting with a diagram part list, pcb lay-outs and technical drawing, component brands and grounding details are included. Software version is recorded as well as hardware revisions. Drawings are dated and recorded. For those customers that need to provide the test reports to their customer, we issue a “results-only version” on request. Too often this has proven to be useful, as our customer can fall back of the details in the test report to detect the cause of a sudden failure. Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen, BSc g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] *Namens *Bill Owsley *Verzonden:* Friday, March 15, 2013 5:34 AM *Aan:* Scott Xe; Anthony Thomson; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSES] Critical component in EMC report Indeed !!! and that is why EMC Design Engineers and Consultants continue to be employed. We know the "magic" and how to deploy it. A few are better than most the others, but that is the challenge, finding the ones that know the proper incantations to invoke for a first time pass, or at least a second pass. Test labs just tell you that the product has failed the requirements, and provide some data. The engineering folks have to guess from that data just what in the hell has happened. If they had a problem in the first place, means that they are not qualified to figure out what has failed. Call in a consultant... he is most likely a retired Test Engineer and has lot of experience with ferrites and copper tape. But if that gets you under the limits - great!! Or call in an EMC Design Engineer. They fix things on the pcb's and schematics. It's not cheap, but it sure goes right to the source of problem and also fixes SI, signal integrity. Your design can start at 10 MHz and ship at 200MHz with no changes to the layout. The same applies today with the proper scaling as mentioned by Dr, Howard Johnson of the "black magic" books. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Xe < scott...@gmail.com > *To:* Anthony Thomson < ton...@europe.com >; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Sent:* Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:25 AM *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Critical component in EMC report Thanks for all responded! For large companies, they may have test facilities and knowledgeable engineers to vary their products before sending to 3rd part lab for verification/certification. For medium and small companies, they have no test facilities and the engineers who may not have got the professional training in EMC requirements rely on the 3rd party lab for spotting out the failures and the advice for problem fixing. Dealing with such companies would be at risk as the test report may not help them too much. Regards, Scott On 14/3/13 4:40 PM, "Anthony Thomson" <ton...@europe.com> wrote: Scott, EMC compliance is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer (or whoever places the product on the market). It’s entirely up to you how you control ongoing compliance (or not). T ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Xe Sent: 03/13/13 03:48 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Critical component in EMC report It is common not to have critical component list in EMC reports issued from 3rd party laboratories. Those information are essential to track if the correct parts to be used in mass production. What is main reason not to have it as a common practice in the field? Thanks and regards, Scott - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < emc-p...@ieee.org > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas < emcp...@radiusnorth.net > Mike Cantwell < mcantw...@ieee.org > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher < j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald < dhe...@gmail.com > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < emc-p...@ieee.org > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas < emcp...@radiusnorth.net > Mike Cantwell < mcantw...@ieee.org > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher < j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald < dhe...@gmail.com > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < emc-p...@ieee.org > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas < emcp...@radiusnorth.net > Mike Cantwell < mcantw...@ieee.org > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher < j.bac...@ieee.org > David Heald < dhe...@gmail.com > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
