I think he was referring to laws that anyone would think stupid, like the old classic one requiring someone with a red flag to talk in front of a motor vehicle to warn people riding horses. Not that we still have that one, but you get the idea of what he was talking about. Given that this particular legislator and I are on opposite ends of the political spectrum and about the only thing we seem to agree on is our love for Washington State University I thought it was a good opportunity to jab him for a number of what I would consider “stupid laws” when he was complaining about the existence of them. Oh well…
Ghery S. Pettit From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:43 AM To: Pettit, Ghery; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit Conceptually I agree but I can’t see how it could ever be solved. “Stupid” is pretty relative. We have environmental laws which many see as “stupid”. Unrestricted coal burning for example. Some countries have no such laws –or don’t enforce them - and you can’t see the horizon because it’s “foggy”. The shear plethora of laws occurs because as soon as a law is published somebody looks for a way to circumvent the intent of the law (probably because it was stupid), then another law is made or amended to address the circumvention. Ad nauseaium (Homemade Latin phrase) Certainly my opinion only. Gary From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:03 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit I suggested that to one of our state legislators a few years ago when he was complaining about a number of “stupid laws”. If looks could kill I would have been 6 feet under several years ago. Ghery S. Pettit From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 4:32 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit Doug has a point, the laws are available, and we can get access for free. The problem is we spend our lives trying to find which laws we have to comply with, then more than likely have lawyers try to agree what they really meant when it was written! Time we reduced the number of laws.... Derek. Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2013, at 16:41, Doug Powell <doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com>> wrote: Cortland I am not certain you speed limit example explains the point you are trying to make. Here in Colorado we have the Colorado Revised Statutes, or CRS. In these laws are all the requirements for citizens to follow so they are in compliance with the law. In practice posted speed limits are akin to the warning labels we put on products like: Danger High Voltage or Speed Limit 65. In my state we can go to the government website and read any portion of the CRS for free. Same with the US Code of Federal Regulations. Now, if this were available only by paid subscription, then your point would be made. Of course, how many citizens actually read the law in its entirety? I suspect it is less than even 1%. Hence the need for posted cautionary and warning statements. Doug From: Cortland Richmond Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Reply To: k...@earthlink.net<mailto:k...@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit The problem is, of course, that by incorporating copyrighted documents into the Code of Federal Regulations "by reference," various agencies render invisible laws we are all required to obey -- unless we go to their reading rooms (I think) to find out. In practice? We on this list work or have worked for firms who could afford to buy copies of their own. But imagine one day finding that one has been convicted in absentia of speeding through a town without speed limit signs, limits available only by subscription. Cortland Richmond On 10/7/2013 1135, Peter Tarver wrote: There is occasionally much haranguing regarding how "standards should be free." The NFPA has joined ASHRAE and ASTM<http://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublications/nfpa-journal/2013/september-october-2013/pov/first-word?order_src=C247> to claim otherwise. Regards, Peter L. Tarver - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net<mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net<mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net<mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
