I vote you.
Regards Tim From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:30 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Ed brings up some important advice. As an EMC (or compliance or product regulations) engineer, you'll need to strike a balance between meeting the letter of the law (with margin) versus the business needs of your company. While you can't break the law, you may find you'll often need to balance what you can achieve EMC-wise with product cost and schedule. For example, with radiated emissions (generally the toughest thing to meet), I would try to achieve at least a 6 dB margin below the limit across all frequencies. This would account for small test sample size and production differences in resulting emissions. Sometimes the right answer might be only a three dB margin. I would certainly not accept zero dB margin, however. You'll need to explain to management about production variances, etc. For high production runs, you may even consider running audit tests to ensure current products are still meeting the limit. The better EMC engineers will carefully weigh the legal requirements with the business needs and avoid being the "EMC Cop" - a good way to end your career before it starts. Cheers, Ken _______________________ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.com<mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com> www.emc-seminars.com<http://www.emc-seminars.com> Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ed Price <edpr...@cox.net<mailto:edpr...@cox.net>> wrote: All great advice from Bob Macy, but I can't help thinking of the times I had a Program Manager say plaintively something to the effect of "I don't care what you have to do, but get me under the limit. I don't care how much under the limit, just under it. Even 0 dB under the limit, I can argue that, I can work with that, Yeah, even 0 dB is good for me!" Regarding Bob's advice on Learning and Teaching, my last 30 years were spent as an in-house EMC expert doing qualification testing. I always insisted that a program engineer shepherd the product through my testing, so I usually got one of the more junior engineers. Over the course of maybe a week or two, through the easy passes and the iterative fixes, that engineer got a continuous EMC fundamentals course (with the most practical hands-on possible). I loved doing this for two reasons; first, those junior engineers were usually fresh out of school, were bright and soaked up what I had to say. And second, explaining why a particular signal leaked, or why some shield didn't shield, made me constantly think about what I was doing and why I really did things that way. Because, every so often, one of those newbies made me improve my technique and clarify my own understanding. A lot of those newbies moved on to other companies, but the ones who stayed moved up in the company, and after a while, most every one of our engineering PM's had sat through my EMC course. It's a long haul, but it was well worth it. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -----Original Message----- From: Macy [mailto:m...@basicisp.net] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:13 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Not sure what exactly you want to specialize in, inside EMC. However here is my advice: 1. KNOW EVERY RULE 2. CHANGE MINDSET 3. MAKE CONTACTS and these two are REALLY important: 4. BECOME A TEACHER 5. LEARN, LEARN, LEARN; EXPERIMENT = become a Hands On Expert KNOW EVERY RULE! To me, an EMC Engineer is a walking encyclopedia resource. Knows applicable rules and testing requirements. Knows every applicable NRTL [multiple ones] along with prices/estimation of ANY compliance testing [and TIME to test] For example an EMC Engineer will know the answer to the question, "What do we need in order to get such and such product sold in ??" Knows the labs to go to, how much to budget for testing cost, how much time, and how many number of units for testing. Will partner with Safety, because UL type labs destroy stuff. CHANGE MINDSET! Think in terms of 'executive' and NOT 'engineer' Do NOT be a 'fireman'. Be pre-emptive! KNOW every product your firm IS developing and probably WILL be developing. Always 'nose around' because EMC is usually, and catastrophically, left to the end of the Product Development cycle. You NEVER want to face the demand, "We're ready to go to Production, so fix it, but don't change anything!" Plan, plan, plan! Make certain there are enough representative samples. Product managers usually assume the units made for 'checking' Production will suffice NOT TRUE! Allocate units for TEST and SAVE them, store them [if volume of production allows] To be effective here one must be equally comfortable with Marketing, Manufacturing, Engineering, AND Financial Depts. Same level of respect as Legal, because compliance is a 'legal' issue. Set parameters. For example Sony REQUIRES 8dB margin at the Test Lab! Not as easy as it sounds. HP used to set 6 dB [sigh, those were the days] MAKE CONTACTS! You will need access to resources, services, and [sometimes] agency approval people. For expertise and advice go to the local IEEE EMC meetings [do not have to be an IEEE member to go]. Develop a list of Test Labs [especially people inside the labs] and use them to inform/confirm requirements. It is important to KNOW the people, and have them know you, in various countries, organizations, and agencies. Try to become a 'representative' of your firm as rules are being made. BECOME A TEACHER! Make EMC "part of the Design cycle", not an obstacle to overcome AFTER the fact. It's always easier and cheaper to implement design impacts early in the process. That means giving some short tutorials, lessons, 'rules-of-thumb', and most importantly, BASIC CONCEPTS of 'Designing for EMC' to Engineering, so when they are faced with a design trade-off they decide the 'right' way. And, wedge into the schedule some DESIGN REVIEWS! If Engineering hides their designs something is wrong anyway. Be prepared to do design reviews informally, lunch conversations, small bit of 'show-and-tell' during a coffee break, or "please brag about your design" questions. You can do Design Review without slowing down the development process, but YOU MUST KEEP ON TOP OF IT! LEARN, LEARN, LEARN; EXPERIMENT Experiment means to try things just to see the effect [develop EXPERIENCE]. An EMC Engineer is expected to know how to head off EMC problems and know how to solve EMC problems - especially within the real life constraint of necessary design trade-offs. Nothing helps more than a thorough knowledge of RF/Microwave, ESD/LIGHTNING, and Mechanical structures. Use any 'visualization' technique you can to be able to understand what's happening and how to convey that to others. Sources for learning: Instrumentation firms selling their wares - have them demo for you. Test Labs trying to sell test time explain in great detail how tests are performed. The aformentioned EMC meetings usually provide lectures. And, with the internet, this excellent group will answer anything. I cannot stress enough the importance of learning why/how EMC works on a 'real' level. Every Engineer has design constraints and real-life physical constraints and it does not help to tell them simply "do it this way" when it is simply NOT possible. [I actually got some clients away from Mike King, in LA, because when his client failed EMC, he simply pragmatically responded with something along the line of "You didn't do what I told you to." Actually, what Engineering really needs is an UNDERSTANDING of EMC, then when faced with a trade-off; THEY can decide the way that has the least negative impact. Everybody wins. So, learn AND teach. Also, set up pre-testing site near your firm's Engineering location for you and the Engineers to see the effects of some of their decisions - real time. And prepare some short demos and seminars. All "hands on" with practical examples they can walk away with. Regards, Robert Macy, PE AJM International Electronics P O Box 74241 46007 N 38th Ave, Suite 100 New River, AZ 85087 tel: 480 466 0895 fax: 623 465 2974 m...@basicisp.net<mailto:m...@basicisp.net> --- egide.mur...@molex.com<mailto:egide.mur...@molex.com> wrote: From: "Murisa, Egide" <egide.mur...@molex.com<mailto:egide.mur...@molex.com>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:32:25 +0000 Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
