Yes, we test our products to IEC 61000-4-11, however, our test equipment can only handle 16 amps single phase so we cannot perform this test when the high current furnace is running.
The word we get from the field is that these power supplies are failing while the instruments are in Stand-by mode (running but not during an analysis), meaning, the high current filter is not running at the time of the failures. UPDATE: We had another power supply failure in our Apps Lab a few nights ago in one of the same units that failed a few weeks ago. We installed a Surge Suppressor in an adjacent instrument which did not fail. Our AC Line Analyzer showed a transient pulse which was clipped off (probably by the surge suppressor) at 600 volts with a duration of 14us. The power supply blew its fuses (one on each side of the line) plus opened an upstream 15 amp circuit breaker. An analysis of the power supply showed that it did not blow its guts out like previous failures. This one just opened the fuses. We replaced the fuses and the power supply was functional. So the power supply still drew enough power to blow the fuses but did not permanently damage any components this time. We performed Surge Immunity tests on this same instrument with the same surge suppressor according to IEC 61000-4-5 up to 6KV without damage. So something is different from this test setup verses the real world. The investigation continues. Thanks to all for the input. The Other Brian From: McDiarmid, Ralph [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 2:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Unexplained High Fallout of Power Supplies >This lab area has surge protection, so again, we believe the problem is some >kind of low voltage transient, voltage dropout, or >waveform distortion that >we have been unable to detect and simulate. Was it tested against IEC 61000-4-11 (voltage dips, short interruptions, variations ) ? _______________________________________________________________________________ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: "Kunde, Brian" <brian_ku...@lecotc.com<mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>, Date: 09/17/2015 06:40 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] Unexplained High Fallout of Power Supplies ________________________________ Bob and all. Good question. Before I answer your questions, let me describe the typical architecture of the products that we make. Our instruments (laboratory equipment) are single phase 230VAC 50/60hz which powers two separate internal circuits; one being a relatively low current electronics powered by a purchased over-the-shelf 24Vdc power supply, and second, a high current furnace of some type; inductive, electrode, resistive heating elements, etc.. Because of the high overall current of the instruments, typically between 30A and 50A, the instrument is plugged into a high current branch circuit with a huge high current line filter. Internally, we usually have a smaller supplementary over-current protector (5, 10 or 15 amp) driving the lower current non-furnace electronics such as the dc power supply, cooling fans and blowers, etc.. The issues we are having are with these purchased power supplies blowing up. And because we pre-test power supplies and our finished products so extensively and we are not able to cause a power supply failure with the same damage pattern as we are seeing in the field, we believe that in the real world our products are seeing some kind of condition that we are not able to simulate in our EMC Lab. Identifying and understanding such conditions is our goal at this time. We use no additional inrush limiting other that what is built into the power supplies themselves. Other than a thermistor of some kind, how can the inrush be limited? We have also seen on several occasions in the field where a power supply will blow up in one instrument which causes the power supply in a nearby instrument to also fail. Two weeks ago we had an "event" occur right here at our own campus in our Application Lab where 40-50 instruments of different models and ages are being used daily to develop test methods. An instrument was power on but was not running an analysis (high current furnace wasn't running in what we call Standby-mode). BAM!! The 24Vdc power supply blew up. We sent two R&D engineers who have been working on our fallout problem in the field to investigate. They found the power supply had failed in the same way as those in the field. No other failed component in the instrument was found. The power supply was replaced and the instrument was once again functional. AS THE Engineers turned to walk back to their office, BAM!! The power supply blew up in the instrument installed NEXT to the one they just repaired. This second instrument is a different model with a different manufacturer of power supply. An AC Power Line monitor/analyzer was installed on the AC Mains circuit and has been c! hecked every morning since. No unusual transients or power dropouts have been detected. This lab area has surge protection, so again, we believe the problem is some kind of low voltage transient, voltage dropout, or waveform distortion that we have been unable to detect and simulate. Thanks to all. The Other Brian -----Original Message----- From: Bob LaFrance [mailto:b...@creare.com] Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2015 8:46 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Unexplained High Fallout of Power Supplies I am curious to what you are using for inrush limiting. Sorry if you already told us but I missed that. Regards, Bob LaFrance N9NEO Design Engineer Creare Inc. 16 Great Hollow Road Hanover, NH 603-640-2539 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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