I am not an entomologist but is it possible it has nothing to do with E and H fields? Could it simply be that it is just a nice dry/warm environment for them to produce offspring. I have observed ants just last spring in my low voltage transformers for my landscape lights. When you disturb them they scurry away carrying their eggs. I have also observed this same behavior under rocks, especially large flat pieces of slate but anything similar would do. Like wood, plastic or whatever. The reason I mentioned the association with spring is due to the fact that in Michigan winter can get pretty cold and a transformer rated for outdoor use (typically in an enclosure) can produce a nice dry/warm environment. In the summer anything works for them as long as it stays dry/warm. I know this forum is for EMC-Safety but not everything can be attributed to E and H fields. Although if it did, I would migrate to it being an H field effect.
Mark From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Fire ants This topic is getting interesting.. I had originally thought it would be received like one of my Friday questions 8-j), but now I see there is quite a bit of serious information possible. One note, of all the magnetic core types, the toroidal form factor is probably does the best job of containing magnetic flux. Although EMC core material is generally low Q and may produce some fringing fields, a core used for GFCI should be fairly high Q, I would think. Of course, all conductors are known to produce both E & H fields regardless of the presence of magentics. All my children have outgrown the high school science project stage so I may have to do the experiment myself. We have a few varieties of ants on Colorado as well. Very interested to hear if entomologists have anything to add. -Doug Douglas E Powell Laporte, Colorado USA doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Ted Eckert <000007cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org<mailto:000007cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>> wrote: I would like to note that Mr. Gies is from New Jersey. The adoption of an updated electrical code with expanded use of AFCI breakers was blocked in New Jersey partly through resistance from home construction contractors who didn’t like the higher cost of the new breakers. My theory is that those contractors worked with a mad scientist to develop a strain of ants that attacks AFCI breakers. This was an attempt to “prove” that the AFCI breakers were unreliable. Unfortunately, Mr. Woodgate’s experiments with plutonium resulted in mutations that led the ants to attack the GFCI breakers instead. Ted Eckert The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my employer, entomologist, biologist or the construction industry of New Jersey. From: Adam Dixon [mailto:lanterna.viri...@gmail.com<mailto:lanterna.viri...@gmail.com>] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 6:05 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Fire ants Follow the links available in Doug's original post to get to the Texas A&M article which references both electric and magnetic field influences. In my locale (Atlanta, GA), University of Georgia folks speculate the attraction is due to thermals (2013 AJC article: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/crazy-ants-the-ants-that-eat-electronics-march-int/nZ3zy/). Looks like there are folks who have been researching this over the past 20 years or so. The GFCI attraction may have been from alien ants like on CBS' Braindead which are intelligent enough to realize that the GFCI is more safe. ;-) Regards, Adam adam.di...@ieee.org<mailto:adam.di...@ieee.org> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 8:25 AM, IEEE <d...@ieee.org<mailto:d...@ieee.org>> wrote: I wonder if there are any entomologists that are studying this effect? Has anyone looked up any of the ant specialists to see if they’ve been exploring this phenomena? WRT to Don’s experience, I wonder if it’s the magnetic field that is attracting them more than the electric field? The GFCI has some toroidal current transformers that might be part of the attraction… I was also wondering if the abdominal signalling/pheromone release behaviour following the electric shock was a call to battle with a perceived enemy, against which they could not win. I guess if you pile on enough dead ants you can eventually trip the breaker feeding the circuit, and the ants “win”, at least in the moment. Anyway, sounds like we need some bug guys involved in this discussion… Doug Nix d...@ieee.org<mailto:d...@ieee.org> +1 (519) 729-5704<tel:%2B1%20%28519%29%20729-5704> On Sep 15, 2016, at 06:14, Gies, Don (Nokia - US) <don.g...@nokia-bell-labs.com<mailto:don.g...@nokia-bell-labs.com>> wrote: Yes. I had a GFCI 20A circuit breaker in my panel feeding my pool pump motor. I went to open my pool last spring and the breaker kept tripping. So, I concluded that the breaker went bad. I opened up the breaker panel to change the breaker and found that the GFCI breaker was infested with ants (regular ones, not fire ants), but interestingly, the GFCI breaker was the ONLY breaker in the entire panel that had ants. DON GIES NOKIA Bell Labs SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978<tel:%2B1%20908%20582%205978> Mobile: +1 732 207 7828<tel:%2B1%20732%20207%207828> don.g...@nokia-bell-labs.com<mailto:don.g...@nokia-bell-labs.com> From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 6:04 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org> Subject: [PSES] Fire ants All, I was wondering if anyone has any real experiences with fire ant infestation in electrical equipment that they would be willing to share. http://articles.extension.org/pages/30057/ants-and-electrical-equipment It seems to me that for high current contractors and electrical disconnects (not using self-wiping contacts) with contaminants between connection points can result in resistive connections, I^2R heating, potential arcing and if enough voltage is present, series arc faults which over time can erode connections and result in a fire. Does anyone have experience with this as a real problem? Thanks Doug -- Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> -- Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
