Thank you - In your example of lifts or a/c it would need to comply with the more restrictive criteria (residential for emissions and industrial for immunity) even though the location may itself not be powered by low-voltage supply. The devices I am working with would not be considered fixed installations, as an elevator would be, so it isn't apples to apples, but disregarding that difference, any idea?
Also, what about a large shopping mall? Or are there different types of environments within the shopping mall: i.e., mechanical room with boilers, HVAC, etc. and stores, walkways, etc.? Thanks, -Jamison From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes You often get heavy electrical machinery in residential, light commercial and hospital (etc.) (especially multi-story) premises - think local power transformers, air-conditioning systems, lifts/elevators, water/sewage pumping equipment, etc - and that can (and has certainly been seen to) affect domestic, IT and medical electronic equipment in those premises. It's the end-use environment that is (or should be) the determining factor in deciding with which category of requirements the EUT must comply. John E Allen W.London, UK From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: 18 October 2016 16:10 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes No, because light industry premises are often very close to residential premises, get power from the low-voltage supply and broadcast receivers can be much closer than 30 m (the assumption for emission limit purposes is 10 m, but of course they could be even closer). With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=l525G496siNA_QwQ5lxfDPu6vxscfAjpp_PeJN5-qcg&e=> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 3:57 PM To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com<mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Hi John, Would this be applicable for Light Industrial equipment as well? Thank you. From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:49 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes For Europe, 'industry' means heavy industry - large machines, high-power electrical installation, not powered from the public low-voltage supply. No broadcast radio or TV receivers likely to be within 30 metres. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=GjhSKIL3JsS7U0_q6lCXxHNYbr7GFcQHvQHPwZ7r0vM&e=> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 1:45 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Good Morning, What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use. It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment). I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that those are what are typically followed in practice. I appreciate any thoughts. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=Bt9NbdlL_EShvm0dH0z746fmIZ9bXnqeaRu01kXdw8c&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=aPFLgLk0Lwt8opg68wZESUkQwdAgkA7HC3CjjWetg48&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=kt0HahOgESnvyr9BHlRkR15o13XMDVdkIQNXU_VZ0vA&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=NwMizmId3_AUm79hfDesHbdrQlmJjrojxNoFImaqlDs&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=SYqH7X5UL-ZzGupEKcIaORB0Y_V2fbSYbv1EA8MBAf0&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=Bt9NbdlL_EShvm0dH0z746fmIZ9bXnqeaRu01kXdw8c&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=aPFLgLk0Lwt8opg68wZESUkQwdAgkA7HC3CjjWetg48&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=kt0HahOgESnvyr9BHlRkR15o13XMDVdkIQNXU_VZ0vA&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=NwMizmId3_AUm79hfDesHbdrQlmJjrojxNoFImaqlDs&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=SYqH7X5UL-ZzGupEKcIaORB0Y_V2fbSYbv1EA8MBAf0&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is included in any attachment. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=KR-m3u5AMKTTIeWm_98YpDY2lHOpt9PIE7b0_h2xV3o&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xhywX6X3ZzdJAzjimEoZF6MRky6eM9rfvwenT7Wudxg&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=WzamZiJIXyjT1UOschZB1wrYPMu4GtzRwU8-yo4DMkw&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xFiwHK0WKjwY6Z89UtqsYwsyMj0exBSxKdkYu9JjaGk&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=26Px46MGXq9Gqu4cjaAdkDrkvqe1jT33AzFpPMcmpII&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=KR-m3u5AMKTTIeWm_98YpDY2lHOpt9PIE7b0_h2xV3o&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xhywX6X3ZzdJAzjimEoZF6MRky6eM9rfvwenT7Wudxg&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=WzamZiJIXyjT1UOschZB1wrYPMu4GtzRwU8-yo4DMkw&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xFiwHK0WKjwY6Z89UtqsYwsyMj0exBSxKdkYu9JjaGk&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=26Px46MGXq9Gqu4cjaAdkDrkvqe1jT33AzFpPMcmpII&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>