Jamison
The shopping mall example could be a "difficult" situation, but for me that means that there will be quite a lot of Class A ITE such as servers and the like (and even a lot of that is now likely to be Class B because that is what many large end-use customers now specify and expect) in the server rooms, but probably also a much larger amount of Class B equipment like counter terminals, PCs (etc.), vending machines, tv's and other consumer electronics on displays, games arcades (etc.) in the office, shop and public areas - and then there will also generally be large numbers of essentially Class B equipments (phones, tablets and the like) being carried and used by the shopping public, and it would not be "good publicity" for the mall if the customers kept complaining that their equipment won't work when they in the mall or just outside it. Therefore, I would advise that the "heavy stuff" should be Class B for emissions and Class A for immunity. OTOH, if the "heavy stuff" is located a well-defined long distance away from the areas where the more sensitive stuff is likely to be then you might be able to justify Class A for both. That might work for bespoke installations where the equipment supplier can be fairly sure of the exact end-use environment and equipment locations, but almost certainly not for equipment for general sale where the equipment supplier has no real idea of what the end-customers' specifying and installing companies will do with it. John E Allen W. London, UK From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com] Sent: 18 October 2016 16:53 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Thank you - In your example of lifts or a/c it would need to comply with the more restrictive criteria (residential for emissions and industrial for immunity) even though the location may itself not be powered by low-voltage supply. The devices I am working with would not be considered fixed installations, as an elevator would be, so it isn't apples to apples, but disregarding that difference, any idea? Also, what about a large shopping mall? Or are there different types of environments within the shopping mall: i.e., mechanical room with boilers, HVAC, etc. and stores, walkways, etc.? Thanks, -Jamison From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes You often get heavy electrical machinery in residential, light commercial and hospital (etc.) (especially multi-story) premises - think local power transformers, air-conditioning systems, lifts/elevators, water/sewage pumping equipment, etc - and that can (and has certainly been seen to) affect domestic, IT and medical electronic equipment in those premises. It's the end-use environment that is (or should be) the determining factor in deciding with which category of requirements the EUT must comply. John E Allen W.London, UK From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: 18 October 2016 16:10 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes No, because light industry premises are often very close to residential premises, get power from the low-voltage supply and broadcast receivers can be much closer than 30 m (the assumption for emission limit purposes is 10 m, but of course they could be even closer). With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_&d =DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8Nx mY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=l525G496siNA_QwQ5lxfDPu6v xscfAjpp_PeJN5-qcg&e=> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 3:57 PM To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Hi John, Would this be applicable for Light Industrial equipment as well? Thank you. From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:49 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes For Europe, 'industry' means heavy industry - large machines, high-power electrical installation, not powered from the public low-voltage supply. No broadcast radio or TV receivers likely to be within 30 metres. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jmwa.demon.co.uk_&d =DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9o JL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=GjhS KIL3JsS7U0_q6lCXxHNYbr7GFcQHvQHPwZ7r0vM&e=> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 1:45 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Criteria for determining industrial vs. non-industrial for EMC testing purposes Good Morning, What do you use for criteria when reviewing the intended environment in which a device will be placed to determine if it is industrial or non-industrial? I have seen and read varying opinions on what criteria to use. It ranges from a transformer isolated factory to the nature of the other products in the immediate vicinity (a mechanical room in a grocery store = industrial due to the equipment in its immediate environment). I am familiar with some of the definitions in places, but am not so sure that those are what are typically followed in practice. I appreciate any thoughts. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc -2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGG iEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M- gaRnQXk&s=Bt9NbdlL_EShvm0dH0z746fmIZ9bXnqeaRu01kXdw8c&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc .ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiE Xp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-ga RnQXk&s=aPFLgLk0Lwt8opg68wZESUkQwdAgkA7HC3CjjWetg48&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d= DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJ L3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=kt0Ha hOgESnvyr9BHlRkR15o13XMDVdkIQNXU_VZ0vA&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis t.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8W a3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQX k&s=NwMizmId3_AUm79hfDesHbdrQlmJjrojxNoFImaqlDs&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis trules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGi EXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-g aRnQXk&s=SYqH7X5UL-ZzGupEKcIaORB0Y_V2fbSYbv1EA8MBAf0&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc -2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGG iEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M- gaRnQXk&s=Bt9NbdlL_EShvm0dH0z746fmIZ9bXnqeaRu01kXdw8c&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc .ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiE Xp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-ga RnQXk&s=aPFLgLk0Lwt8opg68wZESUkQwdAgkA7HC3CjjWetg48&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d= DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8Wa3AN0R9oJ L3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQXk&s=kt0Ha hOgESnvyr9BHlRkR15o13XMDVdkIQNXU_VZ0vA&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis t.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGiEXp8W a3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-gaRnQX k&s=NwMizmId3_AUm79hfDesHbdrQlmJjrojxNoFImaqlDs&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis trules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=9mghv0deYPYDGP-W745IEdQLV1kHpn4XJRvR6xMRXtA&r=RsvNGGi EXp8Wa3AN0R9oJL3JV5vFvlTsmxQpMmBLBIw&m=anF8KzSlsLQbjsJLP3rXWGZNlarqvhygt0M-g aRnQXk&s=SYqH7X5UL-ZzGupEKcIaORB0Y_V2fbSYbv1EA8MBAf0&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying to the sender and delete this message. The sender disclaims that the content of this email constitutes an offer to enter into, or the acceptance of, any agreement; provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the binding effect of any digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is included in any attachment. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc -2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjd tolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=KR-m3u5AMKT TIeWm_98YpDY2lHOpt9PIE7b0_h2xV3o&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc .ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdto lb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xhywX6X3ZzdJA zjimEoZF6MRky6eM9rfvwenT7Wudxg&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d= DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8Nxm Y&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=WzamZiJIXyjT1UOschZB1wrYPM u4GtzRwU8-yo4DMkw&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis t.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h 84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xFiwHK0WKjwY6Z89U tqsYwsyMj0exBSxKdkYu9JjaGk&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis trules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdt olb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=26Px46MGXq9G qu4cjaAdkDrkvqe1jT33AzFpPMcmpII&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc -2Dpstc.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjd tolb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=KR-m3u5AMKT TIeWm_98YpDY2lHOpt9PIE7b0_h2xV3o&e=> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc .ieee.org_&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdto lb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xhywX6X3ZzdJA zjimEoZF6MRky6eM9rfvwenT7Wudxg&e=> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_&d= DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h84QBM8Nxm Y&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=WzamZiJIXyjT1UOschZB1wrYPM u4GtzRwU8-yo4DMkw&e=> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis t.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdtolb5h 84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=xFiwHK0WKjwY6Z89U tqsYwsyMj0exBSxKdkYu9JjaGk&e=> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_lis trules.html&d=DQMFAg&c=clRTYxLjfWTYQkksq4Trqw&r=SuXR4v_cWDGps50Ob7OgG3eGvjdt olb5h84QBM8NxmY&m=2oeB1yFm6V--H8mjvtzgQ6xeJ8JLy0Wc3IjnPTfH6BY&s=26Px46MGXq9G qu4cjaAdkDrkvqe1jT33AzFpPMcmpII&e=> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
