John I think the American secret service have enough work to cope with! From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 08 November 2016 11:11 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Automated vehicles.
Mike That’s an “interesting” concept: maybe one could also do the opposite and “persuade” such a vehicle to “accidently” hit someone who was really disliked and then blame it on the vehicle systems (a sort of very target-specific “suicide bomb” as mentioned in one of my early posts – I can postulate a few people that would make good targets!)? John E Allen W.London, UK From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com] Sent: 08 November 2016 10:53 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Automated vehicles. Hey, maybe with face recognition software and access to Linked-In and Facebook, it could prioritise customers or family and friends? ☺ From: Jim Hulbert [mailto:jim.hulb...@pb.com] Sent: 07 November 2016 13:07 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Automated vehicles. So a Mercedes automated vehicle would make the decision of who lives and who dies. That’s incredible. Jim Hulbert From: Pawson, James [mailto:james.paw...@echostar.com] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 6:23 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Automated vehicles. This article in The Guardian is related to your first point regarding human drivers “gaming” driverless cars to gain an advantage https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/30/volvo-self-driving-car-autonomous “The first self-driving cars to be operated by ordinary British drivers will be left deliberately unmarked so that other drivers will not be tempted to “take them on”, a senior car industry executive has revealed.” Also “Meanwhile, Mercedes has made it clear that if a situation arises where a car has to choose between saving the lives of its occupants or those of bystanders, it will save the occupants. ‘If you know you can save at least one person, at least save that one. Save the one in the car,’ Christoph von Hugo, manager of driver assistance systems and active safety at Mercedes, told the Paris Motor Show recently.” Bruce Schneier writes a lot on security issues and regularly covers IoT and occasionally driverless vehicles. His blog makes for interesting reading - https://www.schneier.com/ I’m sure it will end up being the usual round of addition of features, poor programming/testing (due to budget constraints), vulnerabilities, exploiting, patching, public outcry, legistlation, etc. All the more reason to buy a bicycle. James From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: 06 November 2016 02:17 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Automated vehicles. Although it's Saturday, I'll use this as my Friday Question. In light of two recent reports in the InComplisnce Magazine. I feel prompted to ask if anyone on this forum can address a couple of questions. http://incompliancemag.com/u-s-dot-releases-federal-policy-on-automated-vehicles/ http://incompliancemag.com/uber-self-driving-truck-delivers-budweiser-beer/ Aside from the obvious concerns about vehicle safety, it occurs to me that there two problem that presently are missing in recent media reporting. In particular for the Level 4 & 5 vehicles as described by the SAE and DOT report. 1) I understand that these vehicles, such as the fully automated Budwiser truck have avoidance systems. Given the human condition of today, I foresee the distinct possibility of drivers in other vehicles "playing around" in such a way as to try and force a response from the avoidance algorithms and cause these vehicles to crash themselves. This kind of sport would be exactly what some types would enjoy. What sort of preventative measures have been taken in this regard? 2) Given the lack of attention to hacking we have already witnessed in the Internet of Things (IoT) crowd, how are the driverless vehicle people doing with regard to the cyber security of these vehicles. That is, is it conceivable that someone may try to hack the truck's operating system and hijack it? Thanks all, doug -- Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> ________________________________ - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
