I once kidded someone that it was a mineral, a sort of orange-blue colour, and nearly as hard as diamond. With best wishes John Woodgate 3 Bramfield Road East, RAYLEIGH Essex SS6 8RG UK OOO – Own Opinions Only <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?). From: Patrick [mailto:conwa...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 8:25 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Uncertainty in ESD testing @Ken.Javor - I had to look this up... "erudite". The act of looking it up showed that I am not! Ha! Thanks again for the Friday humor! -Patrick On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 12:39 PM, Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com <mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> > wrote: I made this point (in a less erudite manner) within the TSWG when we were drafting MIL-STD-461G, but with a requirement such as RE102 already on the books, we are all well acquainted with uncertainty and unafraid of it...
Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 <tel:(256)%20650-5261> _____ From: Douglas Smith <d...@emcesd.com <mailto:d...@emcesd.com> > Reply-To: Douglas Smith <d...@emcesd.com <mailto:d...@emcesd.com> > Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:37:45 -0700 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Subject: [PSES] Uncertainty in ESD testing I recently replied to another post and mentioned uncertainty in ESD testing. I thought it would be good to post it separately to start a wider discussion, so here we go: In ESD testing, the poor specification of the simulator in standards, like IEC 61000-4-2 <tel:61000-4-2> , leads to uncertainty (that one cannot calculate) that far exceeds any uncertainty calculation one could make on ESD testing. Until we fix the standards, uncertainty calculation for ESD testing is meaningless. What is needed is a maximum di/dt limit everywhere on the current waveform and a radiation spec on the simulator. And this is only for contact discharge. For air discharge, the large uncertainty of the discharge itself will likely dominate unless hundreds of discharges are used at each point to reach statistical significance. Doug Smith Sent from my iPhone IPhone: 408-858-4528 <tel:(408)%20858-4528> Office: 702-570-6108 <tel:(702)%20570-6108> Email: d...@dsmith.org <mailto:d...@dsmith.org> Website: http://dsmith.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > -- // Patrick - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
