I neglected to say in my previous post the obvious: we were discussing implementation of CS118, the new ESD requirement. Regarding charging in where angels fear to tread, MIL-STD-461 has since 1993 imposed measurement system integrity checks, wherein a known stimulus is applied to the transducer and the response at the EMI receiver is verified to be within +/- 3 dB, or the measurement system needs adjustment.
For RE102, the radiated electric field requirement, that injection is always less the actual transducer, i.e., the antenna. The antenna is disconnected and the injection is made where the antenna would connect. This approach obeys a fundamental rule of life: ³If you can¹t stand the answer, don¹t ask the question.² Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> Reply-To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:47:18 +0100 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Uncertainty in ESD testing As long as your lack of fear isn't because you are not aware of the situation. With best wishes John Woodgate 3 Bramfield Road East, RAYLEIGH Essex SS6 8RG UK OOO Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?). From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 7:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Uncertainty in ESD testing I made this point (in a less erudite manner) within the TSWG when we were drafting MIL-STD-461G, but with a requirement such as RE102 already on the books, we are all well acquainted with uncertainty and unafraid of it... Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Douglas Smith <d...@emcesd.com> Reply-To: Douglas Smith <d...@emcesd.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:37:45 -0700 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Uncertainty in ESD testing I recently replied to another post and mentioned uncertainty in ESD testing. I thought it would be good to post it separately to start a wider discussion, so here we go: In ESD testing, the poor specification of the simulator in standards, like IEC 61000-4-2 <tel:61000-4-2> , leads to uncertainty (that one cannot calculate) that far exceeds any uncertainty calculation one could make on ESD testing. Until we fix the standards, uncertainty calculation for ESD testing is meaningless. What is needed is a maximum di/dt limit everywhere on the current waveform and a radiation spec on the simulator. And this is only for contact discharge. For air discharge, the large uncertainty of the discharge itself will likely dominate unless hundreds of discharges are used at each point to reach statistical significance. Doug Smith Sent from my iPhone IPhone: 408-858-4528 Office: 702-570-6108 Email: d...@dsmith.org Website: http://dsmith.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
