Hello Brian, According to New South Wales, RCDs are required for many products in Australia.<http://www.safework.nsw.gov.au/health-and-safety/industry-safety/electrical-and-power/residual-current-devices> However, I checked a major supplier of Australian electrical devices, and they show RDCs that look more like the U.S. GFCI.<https://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Products/Electrical-Accessories/Safety-Protection/RCD-Protected-Portable-Accessories#.WnH940xFyeE> The cost for the type of RCD required in Australia may not be as cost prohibitive as what you are finding. I will admit that these are single-phase devices. (Disclosure notice: Clipsal is a division of Schneider Electric, my previous employer. My reference to Clipsal products is just for reference purposes and is not necessarily intended to be an endorsement of their product line.)
As Mr. Woodgate noted, the differing wiring practices and regulations may make it more difficult come up with a common practice for RCDs in products, although Mr. Sherman’s suggestion may be a good starting place. Does this list have a member of TC 23/SC 23E who may be more familiar with IEC standards in regards to RCDs? Ted Eckert Microsoft Corporation The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Mike Sherman [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 9:29 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] GFCI vs GFPE Brian -- I think I've seen a Part 2 standard for 60745-1, as I recall, that required a RCD if the tool used water and the water ended up in the wrong place electrically. If you'd like a screen shot of the section, I can probably find it for you. Mike Sherman Graco Inc. ________________________________ From: "Brian Kunde" <brian_ku...@lecotc.com<mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com>> To: "EMC-PSTC" <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 11:06:36 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] GFCI vs GFPE Where Pete stated, “The Euro systems use of RCDs require this protection in many installations (but I’m not familiar with the installation code details)”. This “Code” is probably what I am seeking. Has anyone run across a Code rule that requires the Product to employ a RCCB within the product? If the local electrical code requires a RCCB, cannot this protection be provided as part of the site protection? Why burden the cost of a product where such a requirement may only be necessary in a small percentage of installations? The main purpose of my question on this topic is cost. Here in the USA, a GFCI receptacle is very inexpensive; costing around $10 at most home stores. But a 3-phase RCD Circuit Breaker can cost $300-$400. On some products, such as a tile saw that uses water, this can more than double the cost of the entire product. So knowing when and where they are required is very important. Thanks again to everyone for your consideration. From what I have read so far on this topic, it is a moving target as electric codes from different states and countries are always evolving and the code governing the requirements of RCDs and GFCIs are common to change. Thanks, Brian From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 11:13 AM To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] GFCI vs GFPE You can rely on the recent post in this thread by Pete Perkins. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodjohn.uk&data=02%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C1319dd0df87b4b9d8a9408d568d03b16%7Cee3303d7fb734b0c8589bcd847f1c277%7C1%7C0%7C636530165918821660&sdata=iS4KCuxeJ%2BQIgETijVZNOtup5usvE3MDNHIFAAarZlc%3D&reserved=0> Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-01-31 15:52, Kunde, Brian wrote: Thanks for the input everyone. I know that GFCI protectors in North America will trip between 4-6mA. Do other countries, such as Europe, have the same requirements? Or are 30mA protectors used in Europe? If so, does Europe use 30mA ground fault protectors because of nuisance tripping even though the studies have shown that 30mA can be fatal? These 3-phase cut-off saws that I’m evaluating comes with a power cord, but no plug. They can be field wired or a plug could be added and plugged it into a receptacle. The choice is left up to the customer. The saw uses water but the work environment would not normally be considered a “wet location”. It would not be used in a construction location. So again, I’m trying to figure out why the saw manufacturer used the expensive 30mA ground fault breakers in their product. Thanks, The Other Brian ________________________________ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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