James,
The interoperability of equipment continues to get more
complicated as switching technology spreads more ubiquitously. It is well
known that electronic protection devices (including RCDs & GFCIs) are
suffering 'nuisance' tripping which seems to be inadequately characterized
incoming signals. Additional EMC type tests will have to be added to harden
the units against these signals, while ensuring that that the unit properly
operates when it should. Expect more such testing. You can search for the
recent paper I did with students where we were able to 'trick' the GFCI into
tripping when it shouldn't; 'nuisance' tripping in action.
Historically, the HV impulse tests applied are safety tests.
These tests were given to the EMC lab engineers as the safety engineers, in
those days, didn't provide much lab availability or experience - they mostly
peeked and poked at components in the assembly assessing spacings and
similar. Oh, how much this has changed today.
:>) br, Pete
Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe 97281-3427
503/452-1201
IEEE Life Fellow
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
From: James Pawson (U3C) <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 4:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC tests called up in Safety standards
Hello all,
Thanks for all the interesting replies, much appreciated.
All the best
James
From: Gert Gremmen; ce-test <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> >
Sent: 21 March 2018 11:07
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC tests called up in Safety standards
The EMC tests as called out in 60335 are safety tests, contrary to those
called out under the EMCD that are functional tests only. For Europe , one
can discuss about the necessity of those tests, as the EMCD requires
testing in all operating modes including OFF or standby and as long as one
can prove that an apparatus remains functional, it also could be considered
safe. I have not seen many examples of a compliant functional apparatus that
has become unsafe during an immunity test, but cannot exclude that this may
happen either. Hence this test in 60335, that might also come into view
during the required risk analysis as called out in the new LVD. For Europe
only, of course.
The difference between functional and safety related EMC is an evolving
discussion, lately triggered by accidents with hybrid and autonomous driving
cars.
Gert Gremmen
On 20-3-2018 10:27, James Pawson (U3C) wrote:
Hello experts,
I note that EN 60335-1 (household and similar appliances) specifically calls
up EMC immunity tests in clause 19.11.4 where the controls for the EUT are
set in the "off position" and a set of immunity tests are applied. For
something that controls a heating element, I can see why this would be a
concern.
A couple of questions / thoughts:
* It sounds like this at least doubles the amount of immunity testing
required - one with the EUT "on" and one with it "off". Would that be how
you read this?
* Are there any other safety standards that explicitly call up EMC
tests within them like this one does? This is the first one I've come across
where this is the case but I'm not very familiar with safety standards in
general.
Thanks and all the best,
James
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<[email protected]>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <[email protected]>
Mike Cantwell <[email protected]>
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher: <[email protected]>
David Heald: <[email protected]>
