James,
The interoperability of equipment continues to get more complicated as switching technology spreads more ubiquitously. It is well known that electronic protection devices (including RCDs & GFCIs) are suffering 'nuisance' tripping which seems to be inadequately characterized incoming signals. Additional EMC type tests will have to be added to harden the units against these signals, while ensuring that that the unit properly operates when it should. Expect more such testing. You can search for the recent paper I did with students where we were able to 'trick' the GFCI into tripping when it shouldn't; 'nuisance' tripping in action. Historically, the HV impulse tests applied are safety tests. These tests were given to the EMC lab engineers as the safety engineers, in those days, didn't provide much lab availability or experience - they mostly peeked and poked at components in the assembly assessing spacings and similar. Oh, how much this has changed today. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 IEEE Life Fellow <mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> p.perk...@ieee.org From: James Pawson (U3C) <ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 4:41 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC tests called up in Safety standards Hello all, Thanks for all the interesting replies, much appreciated. All the best James From: Gert Gremmen; ce-test <g.grem...@cetest.nl <mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl> > Sent: 21 March 2018 11:07 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC tests called up in Safety standards The EMC tests as called out in 60335 are safety tests, contrary to those called out under the EMCD that are functional tests only. For Europe , one can discuss about the necessity of those tests, as the EMCD requires testing in all operating modes including OFF or standby and as long as one can prove that an apparatus remains functional, it also could be considered safe. I have not seen many examples of a compliant functional apparatus that has become unsafe during an immunity test, but cannot exclude that this may happen either. Hence this test in 60335, that might also come into view during the required risk analysis as called out in the new LVD. For Europe only, of course. The difference between functional and safety related EMC is an evolving discussion, lately triggered by accidents with hybrid and autonomous driving cars. Gert Gremmen On 20-3-2018 10:27, James Pawson (U3C) wrote: Hello experts, I note that EN 60335-1 (household and similar appliances) specifically calls up EMC immunity tests in clause 19.11.4 where the controls for the EUT are set in the "off position" and a set of immunity tests are applied. For something that controls a heating element, I can see why this would be a concern. A couple of questions / thoughts: * It sounds like this at least doubles the amount of immunity testing required - one with the EUT "on" and one with it "off". Would that be how you read this? * Are there any other safety standards that explicitly call up EMC tests within them like this one does? This is the first one I've come across where this is the case but I'm not very familiar with safety standards in general. Thanks and all the best, James - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>