Hello Gert To make it clear to everyone, you do not need to use a EMC NB regardless of the versions of the EMC standards use, you do need a risk assessment to justify your choice. For the RED, you do not need to use a RED NB for article 3.1, regardless of the standards used, again you need a risk assessment to justify your choice. For the RED article 3.2, and 3.3 if applicable, if you follow the latest OJEU listed standards in full, you do not need to use a RED NB. In all of the above cases you can, on a voluntary basis use a NB. The compulsory use of a RED NB is where you do not follow the OJEU article 3.2 and 3.3 (if applicable) harmonised standard in full. Sorry for the brevity of my answer, I am travelling and my mobile keyboard is not so large. Regards Nick
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, 10:00 Gert Gremmen, <g.grem...@cetest.nl> wrote: > To All, > > In Europe: > > No recent version has been cited yet, but for the EN 301 489-1:V1.9.2 > under the EMCD. For now this is the only version "available" for > certification without Notified Body. I can confirm that this version is not > suitable for the RED. No harmonised cited version is available for the RED > up to now. If you use a NB, citation is not relevant anymore, and any > standard version can be applied, including 1.9.2, 2.2.0, 2.2.1 and the > 2.2.2 (currently under vote and expected in December) but you will need to > convince the NB of the suitability of that standard covering the ERs from > the directive. Not sure if the sudden relaxation to Class A in V2.2.0 > Clause 8.2 is accepted by the NB, given the latest harmonized version that > did not contain that relaxation. Surprising is that this Class A thing got > into the standards but did not make it to the change history in Annex D in > any of the 3 versions above. > > > Gert Gremmen > > > On 17-9-2019 15:11, micha...@acbcert.com wrote: > > Hi Charlie, > > > > The last presentation from ETSI that I recall on the topic, stated that we > should be looking at EN 301 489-1 V2.x.x and newer. We should not be > considering the old EN 301 489-1 V1.9.2 because that is simply not > sufficient for the RED. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Michael. > > > > > > *From:* Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com> > <char...@sulisconsultants.com> > *Sent:* 17 September 2019 13:12 > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B > > > > Gert > > > > EN 301 489-1 V1.9.2 was published in 2011 and is quite old now > > > > As you know, EN 301 489-1 V2.1.1 was published by ETSI in February 2017 > and the latest draft, V2.2.0 was issued by ETSI in March 2019 – both > contain radiated immunity requirements to 6 GHz, which are more extensive > than those in V1.9.2, and both contain the Class A option for emissions, > though with slightly different wording > > > > As far as I know, V1.9.2 won’t ever be cited under the RED - though nor > will V2.1.1 - and the communication from ETSI suggest that the issues in > V2.2.0 mainly revolve around equipment performance monitoring and criteria > and not the Class A/B option for appropriate end environments > > > > Are you suggesting that V1.9.2 is a better standard to apply under the RED > than either V2.1.1 or V2.2.0? > > > > I also know that you’re involved in the process of standard being > published in the OJ, so any further light you can shed on this matter would > be greatly appreciated > > > > Regards > > Charlie > > > > *Charlie Blackham* > > *Sulis Consultants Ltd* > > *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317* > > *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ <https://sulisconsultants.com/> * > > Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 > > > > *From:* Gert Gremmen <g.grem...@cetest.nl> > *Sent:* 17 September 2019 11:56 > *To:* Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>; > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B > > > > Hi Charlie > > That version of the standard 301-489-1 V2.2.1 has not yet been approved, > yet published, so be careful.... > > For now keep relying on V1.9.2 , that does not mention your text on > industrial environment, and that has not yet been cited under the RED > either. > > Gert Gremmen > > On 17-9-2019 10:59, Charlie Blackham wrote: > > You can use Class A for industrial locations under EN 301 489-1: > > > > 8.2.3 Limits > > The ancillary equipment shall meet the class B limits given in CENELEC EN > 55032 [1], annex A tables A.4 and A.5. > > *Alternatively, for ancillary equipment intended to be used exclusively in > an industrial environment or telecommunication centres, the class A limits > given in CENELEC EN 55032 [1], annex A tables A.2 and A.3 may be used.* > > > > If the screen is “ancillary equipment”, another EMC standard can be used > as per section 5.4, though it is more likely to be “combined and/or > integrated radio and non-radio equipment” so the advice in EN 303 446-x can > be followed > > > > > > Also, of course, a RED Notified Body (NB) is only required where the > applicable article 3.2 or 3.3 Harmonised Standard is not used > > The manufacturer is free to choose the EMC and safety standard without use > of NB if they wish > > > > > > > > *Charlie Blackham* > > *Sulis Consultants Ltd* > > *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317* > > *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ <https://sulisconsultants.com/> * > > Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 > > > > *From:* Gert Gremmen <g.grem...@cetest.nl> <g.grem...@cetest.nl> > *Sent:* 17 September 2019 09:01 > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B > > > > Note that for intentional transmitters the EMCD en LVD are not applicable > (but the RED is!). And so are the standards listed for them. > > Probably as this is a transceiver with ancillary equipment (though heavily > integrated?) the combi EN 301489-17/EN 301 489-1 will be applicable. > > The latter limits the emission Class to Class B (for ancillary > electronics) only and refers to EN 55032 as test method. > > Note that RED standards are prone to changes in the close future, make > sure you have the last version and re-check if another version may be listed > > (cited) in the OJ-L. Use a Notified Body otherwise. > > Gert Gremmen > > On 17-9-2019 8:48, John Woodgate wrote: > > Not exactly. The question was strictly about 'Class', which of course can > mean different things in different standards, but my answer is, I think, > correct for Europe. Intentional radiation is excluded from the CISPR > standards and is covered by the ETSI standards cited by Charlie Blackham. > > Best wishes > > John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only > > J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk > > Rayleigh, Essex UK > > On 2019-09-16 23:55, peterh...@aol.com wrote: > > John, > > > > Are you saying that a product with intentional radiator only needs to meet > Class A for emissions in EU? i.e there is no difference in terms of the > limit between intentional and unintentional radiators when it comes to EU. > Is that a correct statement? > > > > Thanks > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Woodgate <j...@woodjohn.uk> <j...@woodjohn.uk> > To: peterhays <peterh...@aol.com> <peterh...@aol.com>; EMC-PSTC > <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 11:34 am > Subject: Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B > > That should be CISPR 35, not CISPR 24 now. In Europe, it would be Class A. > The manual should say 'This product is not to be used in a residential > environment.'. > > Best wishes > > John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only > > J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk > > Rayleigh, Essex UK > > On 2019-09-16 17:56, peterh...@aol.com wrote: > > The product is an ITE and follows CISPR 32 and CISPR 24 > > It will be sold globally > > > > The product is a small touch panel. > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Woodgate <j...@woodjohn.uk> <j...@woodjohn.uk> > To: peterhays <peterh...@aol.com> <peterh...@aol.com>; EMC-PSTC > <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 12:37 am > Subject: Re: [PSES] Intentional radiator Class A or Class B > > To give a reliable answer, we need to know the type of product or the EMC > emission standard that applies (e.g. CISPR 14-1/EN 55014-1) and which > countries/regions it will be sold in. > > Best wishes > > John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only > > J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk > > Rayleigh, Essex UK > > On 2019-09-16 03:51, 000006cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org wrote: > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > I have a client that design and manufacture products for use in > non-residential environment. This product consists of a BT module. I am > told that the product must meet Class B emissions. Is this correct? What if > we put an statement in the user manual stating that this product is not to > be used in residential market? Would that give us the pass to go to Class A? > > > > Thank you all > > Peter > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > -- > > Independent Expert on CE marking > > Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC > > EMC Consultant > > Electrical Safety Consultant > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > -- > > Independent Expert on CE marking > > Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC > > EMC Consultant > > Electrical Safety Consultant > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > > -- > Independent Expert on CE marking > Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC > EMC Consultant > Electrical Safety Consultant > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
