Charlie, et al, If the requirements are tied to the physics then they should be reasonable.
A couple of papers popped up in a google search. Here’s one. Content from this work may be used under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 licence. Any further distribution of this work must maintain attribution to the author(s) and the title of the work, journal citation and DOI. Published under licence by IOP Publishing LtdElectrostatics 2019 and Dielectrics 2019 IOP Conf. Series: Journal of Physics: Conf. Series 1322 (2019) 012010 IOP Publishing doi:10.1088/1742-6596/1322/1/012010 1 A kinetic model for the electrostatic spark discharge in atmospheric-pressure air A Ohsawa Electrical Safety Research Group, National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health, Japan (JNIOSH), 1-4-6 Umezono, Kiyose, Tokyo 204-0024, Japan E-mail: [email protected] Abstract. This paper presents a 0-D kinetic model of electrostatic spark discharges consisting of the time-dependent Boltzmann equation of electrons, a discharge-circuit equation, and heavy particles’ kinetic equations to investigate the energy-transfer mechanisms from the electrostatic energy given to the energy of gases by the spark discharge. In this report, the model is applied to the discharges in atmospheric-pressure air under optimum conditions corresponding for the minimum ignition energies of the typical flammable gases, hydrogen, ethylene and propane, in three types of explosion groups for gases. Altho the article focuses on flammable gases it discusses it relative to air which is the basis for ESD arcs of interest in other situations. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 1067 Albany, ORe 97321-0413 503/452-1201 IEEE Life Fellow IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer <http://www.researchgate.net/Peter%20Perkins> www.researchgate.net search my name <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Entropy ain’t what it used to be From: Charlie Blackham <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 9:50 AM To: Pete Perkins <[email protected]>; [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing EN 61000-4-2 specifies a minimum air pressure of 860 mbar but, * 920 mbar is the centre of a cat 5 hurricane at sea level * 860 mbar is about 4500m above sea level Hardly the most rigorous set of criteria ever written into a standard 😊 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: <https://sulisconsultants.com/> https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Pete Perkins <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: 29 July 2021 17:32 To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing John, You need to address your question to the committee that is responsible for the standard you are questioning. Remember that the standards writing business is a BOGSAT process (Bunch Of Guys Sitting Around a Table). Most of the participants are there because they know something about the subject (subject expert matter delegates) or they have some issue that they either want addressed or want to have it excluded from the standard (latter is usually not disclosed until deep into the discussion). If the leader can come up with a comprehensive outline as to the subjects to be addressed then the process will be more comprehensive; if not it will be less organized. Specifically for this case; why did the committee write another standard that seems to cover the same ground as a base standard IEC 61000-4-2? Wot’s the rationale for this additional standard? Standards writing is not a scientific endeavor (even tho it uses scientific principles, such as you pointed out); It’s like sausage making – but don’t go into the kitchen if you aren’t ready to be involved in making the sausage… If you have strong feelings about the completeness of the product level standard perhaps you should be on the committee and straighten it out. Don’t just grumble, get involved. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 1067 Albany, ORe 97321-0413 503/452-1201 IEEE Life Fellow IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer www.researchgate.net <http://www.researchgate.net/Peter%20Perkins> search my name [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Entropy ain’t what it used to be From: John Flavin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 5:39 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing IEC 61000-4-2 specifies climatic conditions for air discharge, including barometric pressure. ISO 10605 (ESD for road vehicles) is silent about barometric pressure. As I remember, air pressure influences the reproducibility of air discharges, which I assume is why IEC 61000-4-2 specifies limit on it. (ISO 10605:2008 even says this in Annex E.) So, if it’s important, why is this not specified in ISO 10605? John Flavin Senior EMC Engineer 1860 Vermeer Road East | Pella, IA USA 50219 O: 641-621-8958 [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <http://www.vermeer.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailsignature&utm_campaign=mysignature.vermeer.mobi> vermeer.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
