Charlie, As the risk assessment and testing ensues, here are a few resources which may have a bit of useful information:
https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/Hazardous-materials/rflithiumionbatterieshazard.ashx -- good reference, though section on Battery Pack Enclosures is quite brief while mentioning one industry where enclosure is tape. https://ulstandards.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/108HBSDTVirtual_2021_04-Secretary2_minutes.docx -- I don't have a Microsoft login (and may not have access regardless), but these minutes have a Kapton tape example (don't know if a good or bad one...) https://62368-ul-solutions.com/engineers/per-m.4.3,-a-fire-enclosure-is-required-for-secondary-lithium-batteries.-if-the-equipment-enclosure-does-not-meet-the-criteria-of-6.4.8,-can-a-fire-barrier-fulfill-the-intent-of-the-requirement/ https://62368-ul-solutions.com/engineers/for-dc-powered-products-with-internal-ps2-circuits-and-containing-only-resistive-pis,-does-this-construction-require-a-fire-enclosure/ Are you able to share what type/size battery for this application? It would be interesting to understand the potential energy with which you're working. Cheers, Adam in Atlanta On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:02 PM Ted Eckert < 000007cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> wrote: > Hi Charlie, > > > > IEC TR 62368-2 doesn’t provide much guidance on clause M.4.3 other than > that lithium batteries should be considered Potential Ignition Sources. > > > > In general, a polymeric fire enclosure isn’t necessarily going to contain > a fire. V-1 and V-0 materials will burn through, and the standard does not > require 5-VA to completely contain a flame. However, the enclosure can slow > the propagation of a fire. For many smaller lithium-ion batteries, a fire > enclosure will contain the fire long enough for much of the energy to be > released, reducing the risk that the fire will spread to flammable > materials outside of the enclosure. A user holding or wearing a device with > a lithium battery will likely have time to react and separate themselves > from the device should the battery fail exothermically. > > > > I can’t state whether a thin film or tape would be suitable. I can only > suggest a risk analysis. > > > > Best regards, > > Ted Eckert > > The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of > my employer or TC 108. > > > > *From:* Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 8:02 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape > > > > Rich, Ted, All > > > > The product has an outer enclosure that provides suitable mechanical > strength and the battery is IEC62133 compliant charged and discharged via a > suitable chip > > > > There’s a product requirement for a yellow enclosure, and we can’t find a > suitable yellow plastic with enough fire retardancy. > > > > The issue is that Clause M.4.3 mandates a fire enclosure and it’s never > clear (to me anyway) whether some batteries actually have their own fire > enclosure as I don’t see this listed anywhere, and you might get for > Conditions of Acceptability for a Recognised Component PSU. > > > > If a LiIon battery really does “cook off” I’m not sure what enclosure > would actually contain it – I guess it might be as much about whether the > enclosure provides more fuel, but I’m not sure as to the intent of the > clause in the standard > > > > Best regards > > Charlie > > > > *Charlie Blackham* > > *Sulis Consultants Ltd* > > *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317* > > *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsulisconsultants.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C4596811e7f144457823a08d98bfef963%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637694750432063193%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Hs9DP3uv4zELUqMFw3o9n1v1G8bx3IebCAW2VpQby1Y%3D&reserved=0> > * > > Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 > > > > *From:* Richard Nute <ri...@ieee.org> > *Sent:* 08 October 2021 22:42 > *To:* Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com>; > EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* RE: [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape > > > > > > Hi Charlie: > > > > Rather than guess: > > > > https://www.kaptontape.com/PDF/Kapton_Films_Datasheet.pdf > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kaptontape.com%2FPDF%2FKapton_Films_Datasheet.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C4596811e7f144457823a08d98bfef963%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637694750432073186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=s2aNcZKd39Cu4OC2mi41q4S5lys3s%2Fpztnwit8B1RTA%3D&reserved=0> > > > https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/products/ei-transformation/documents/DEC-Kapton-HN-datasheet.pdf > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dupont.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fdupont%2Famer%2Fus%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fei-transformation%2Fdocuments%2FDEC-Kapton-HN-datasheet.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C4596811e7f144457823a08d98bfef963%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637694750432073186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=vuMMQdJ7kFIOxwXI3rp3BclV1eQYe2Pk0gtLpMdhvCU%3D&reserved=0> > > > https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/products/ei-transformation/documents/EI-10167-Kapton-General-Specifications.pdf > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dupont.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fdupont%2Famer%2Fus%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fei-transformation%2Fdocuments%2FEI-10167-Kapton-General-Specifications.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C4596811e7f144457823a08d98bfef963%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637694750432083178%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2FujrQWLQsG%2BYLGZ9G7yj9Saf1wTMaD6F24zvDgUftjw%3D&reserved=0> > > > > After looking at the above specs, I’m inclined to believe that Kapton tape > will provide an acceptable fire enclosure (as good as any other plastic > material). It is tough stuff! And relatively expensive. > > > > If you are going to test it (as suggested by Ted), I suggest a > side-by-side test with the alternate fire enclosure plastic material. > > > > Note that IEC 62368-1 uses IEC 60695-11-10 for flammability rating rather > than UL 94 and UL 510. There are no specific requirements for > fire-enclosure tape. > > > > Stay safe, and best regards, > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com> > *Sent:* Friday, October 8, 2021 6:25 AM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape > > > > All > > > > Various Kapton tapes are sold as Flame Retardant, some seem to reference > UL 94 and others UL 510. > > > > The scenario is a product falling under EN 62368-1 and the secondary > lithium battery needs a fire enclosure and rather than using the product > enclosure, one could be made for the battery using a suitable plastic or > manual application of retardant tape. > > > > Is there any correlation between UL 510 and UL94 when considering creating > a Fire Enclosure for a battery as per Clause M.4.3 ? > > > > > > > > Best regards > > Charlie > > > > *Charlie Blackham* > > *Sulis Consultants Ltd* > > *Mead House* > > *Longwater Road* > > *Eversley* > > *RG27 0NW* > > *UK* > > *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317* > > *Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com <char...@sulisconsultants.com>* > > *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsulisconsultants.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C4596811e7f144457823a08d98bfef963%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637694750432083178%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=EXXsXOdWnOk%2B4L3wZYdAY%2BwiCvUySSP2Y2V%2Bxu9Af6Q%3D&reserved=0> > * > > Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. 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