Hi Brian,
If no one has yet suggested it, would it be possible to send the same type of motor to the customer site? Use the same wiring from the building to connect to the motor and perform the lock rotor test. If the motor passes, then the motor that is already connected would most likely pass. In this way, the customer’s motor would not be damaged or degraded. Thank-you, …Richard Georgerian HID Global Compliance Engineer From: Brian Kunde <bkundew...@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 9:46 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] NRTL Marks on Industrial Pump Assemblies To all. Thanks for the many comments and advice. They were most helpful. Our NRTL inspector is focusing on the AC Mains driving the motor as a potential hazardous circuit. They want the Pump Assembly, or just the motor, to have UL and CSA for sales in North America. Our NRTL inspector says that evaluating motors in the field (Field Evaluation) is difficult for it would require a locked rotor test which would be impossible to do in the field and be potentially destructive to the motor. So these markings on the motor are required. We are in the process of disassembling the pump to see if the motor has these markings, but it is being difficult to disassemble. Still working on it. The Pump Manufacturers are being unresponsive or very slow to respond to our requests. With the current part shortage problems, we are having a difficult time finding a supplier that has a product to sell us. And amongst those, we are having this compliance issue. R&D is frustrated, rightfully so, and is seeking help from our Compliance Engineering Department. Is there a test or tests that can be done in the field that would make this pump assembly acceptable to the AHJ? Ultimately, we will want a pump assembly with the Safety Marking clearly visible from the outside so there are no issues in the field with AHJs, but for now we will take whatever will get the product shipping. Thanks. The Other Brian On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 9:53 AM <lauren.cr...@lamresearch.com <mailto:lauren.cr...@lamresearch.com> > wrote: Brian, I’m curious if your NRTL has made it clear for what topic the pump needs certification? There are many energy efficiency criteria being applied to industrial components of various kinds these days. I cannot bring them all to mind quickly, but water circulators are certainly a possibility, as well as 3 phase induction motors. Energy efficiency compliance generally cannot be judged at the incorporated level. Best Regards, -Lauren From: Brian Kunde <bkundew...@gmail.com <mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 2:01 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] NRTL Marks on Industrial Pump Assemblies External Email: Do NOT reply, click on links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you believe this email may be unsafe, please click on the “Report Phishing” button on the top right of Outlook. I am confused and frustrated. We have an industrial product that includes a small water recirculation tank which includes a motor/pump assembly that is powered by 230V/360V/460Vac 3-phase. Our NRTL inspectors says this pump assembly must have UL, CSA, or equivalent. Here is a website that shows the type of assembly we are looking for: https://www.graymills.com/fm-series.html <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.graymills.com%2Ffm-series.html&data=05%7C01%7Clauren.crane%40lamresearch.com%7Cd9bf71274ca44a02bbb008da5acae122%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C637927978970075867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dbrKCO2k%2BDnZlrxRp%2FkMTz%2FR5CxV0gEFs2AYKchw86U%3D&reserved=0> The trouble is, Graymills, Granger, Dayton, etc. doesn't provide NRTL markings on the pumps that meet our functional requirements. They all say that most of their customers do not require these marks so they only offer a few models that do. How can this be? Am I missing something? Some say that manufacturers can get the pumps approved as part of a certification of the entire machine, but how can the pump be evaluated by a system integrator who doesn't manufacture the pump, nor has any constructional information? Wouldn't it HAVE to be done by the motor manufacturer? I keep asking our NRTL Field Inspector if he would accept such a product and the answer is no. Our CSA inspector also says no; it must have CSA or equivalent on the motor and/or motor/pump assembly. Any suggestions? Thanks, The Other Brian - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=05%7C01%7Clauren.crane%40lamresearch.com%7Cd9bf71274ca44a02bbb008da5acae122%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C637927978970075867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E9AWjV73mRl6OKfqdooAI5AA%2FCaDAhTf5i070K4rt7Q%3D&reserved=0> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Clauren.crane%40lamresearch.com%7Cd9bf71274ca44a02bbb008da5acae122%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C637927978970075867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=L1cY2JA05%2FTGGvj71z6BJfPuc4Wql9HlRffgI4DL958%3D&reserved=0> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html&data=05%7C01%7Clauren.crane%40lamresearch.com%7Cd9bf71274ca44a02bbb008da5acae122%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C637927978970075867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QKe%2BQ5aEUrUHi2vcEz2BQF7qn2IbCrEyL0Mroynzwf0%3D&reserved=0> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html&data=05%7C01%7Clauren.crane%40lamresearch.com%7Cd9bf71274ca44a02bbb008da5acae122%7C918079dbc9024e29b22c9764410d0375%7C0%7C0%7C637927978970075867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=h2tViB24YJGn%2BPJMMQxnu91d5XILGc4Q1%2BwoNEpffnk%3D&reserved=0> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > _____ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC <https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1> &A=1 LAM RESEARCH CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, (collectively, "E-mail Transmission") may be subject to one or more of the following based on the associated sensitivity level: E-mail Transmission (i) contains confidential information, (ii) is prohibited from distribution outside of Lam, and/or (iii) is intended solely for and restricted to the specified recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. Thank you. Confidential – Limited Access and Use - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > _____ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC <https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1> &A=1 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> _________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
