The point about luminaries is that the radiation mechanism is going to be almost wholly through the building wiring, and to the extent that you have luminaries in every room of a building, the entire house wiring will be radiating.
I don't believe the typical CISPR test set-up with maybe a 6' power cord plugged into a LISN does justice to this radiation mechanism. I don't know if the luminary radiated emission test method and/or conducted emission limit takes any of this into account, although John Woodgate, in his inimitable way, stated that the emission limit for luminaries is stricter than for less ubiquitously used products. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 > From: "T.Sato" <vef00...@nifty.com> > Reply-To: "T.Sato" <vef00...@nifty.com> > Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 14:03:21 +0900 > To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Subject: Re: [PSES] Adding more than one EUT > > On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 19:12:57 +0900, > "T.Sato" <vef00...@nifty.com> wrote: > ... >> However, in case of the EMC Directive, it requires "... it complies >> with this Directive when properly installed, maintained and used for >> its intended purpose." >> >> If if is considered that to install tens of LED lights in a house is >> covered by the "intended purpose", shouldn't the LED lights still >> comply with the essential requirements of the Directive in that >> configuration, too? > > P.S. > > I didn't mean to test tens or hundreds of lamps as a whole. > > I only said that they shouldn't cause interference poblem (it is half > of the essential requirements of the Directive) when installed and used > as intended. > > Regards, > Tom > > >>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 6:56 PM Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I¹m finding this an extremely interesting discussion. I don¹t have >>>> anything definitive to offer, but I do have a question to help stir the >>>> pot. >>>> >>>> If the possibility that multiple items might be used together and that >>>> emissions will be additive in some fashion is a justification for testing >>>> multiple units at a time, what about ... light bulbs? >>>> >>>> Meaning CFLs or LEDs. >>>> >>>> My house is full of them. It is reasonable to assume that most >>>> homes/businesses are. Perhaps the emissions limits for these were based on >>>> this reasonably foreseeable outcome? >>>> >>>> Ken Javor >>>> Phone: (256) 650-5261 >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *John Mcbain <johnmcb...@ieee.org> >>>> *Reply-To: *John Mcbain <johnmcb...@ieee.org> >>>> *Date: *Fri, 17 Feb 2023 14:22:44 -0800 >>>> *To: *<EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [PSES] Adding more than one EUT >>>> >>>> Hi Derek - >>>> >>>> Typical requirement for a unit that may be sold and used in multiples >>>> (that is, all the units can be sold together as one product) is you can >>>> test just one IF adding the other units does not increase the emissions. >>>> >>>> Of course the most practical way to determine that is to assemble the >>>> multiple units to see what happens. If the test result for testing max. >>>> connected units compared to testing only one unit shows no significant >>>> difference, then you're good - but definitely archive those test results! >>>> >>>> If you can't pass the test with all units connected, then whatever you do, >>>> don't let Marketing create a multiple-unit product to sell. ;-) >>>> >>>> Similarly, the desktop PC system that James mentioned would have all power >>>> cords separately tested for conducted emissions as a fully connected system >>>> (monitor, printer, scanner, etc. attached) if it is a product sold as a >>>> complete all-included system. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> John McBain >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 1:59 PM James Pawson (U3C) < >>>> ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Derek, >>>> >>>> >>>> Is the daisy chain connection the AC supply or some other power bus? >>>> >>>> >>>> How is 8 units daisy chained any different to 8 separate units all on the >>>> same power bus? We are looking for individual emission contributions from >>>> each connected unit. >>>> >>>> >>>> If measuring conducted emissions on a desktop pc (y'know, the big ones we >>>> had before everyone had laptops to work from home...) the you would just >>>> measure the PC, not the monitor and printer and scanner and modem and and >>>> and... >>>> >>>> >>>> Just thinking aloud >>>> >>>> All the best >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- Lfresearch wrote ---- >>>> >>>> Hi folks, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I¹ve been asked to test a light fixture that has the ability to be daisy >>>> chained up to 8 units. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> When I run conducted emissions, I¹m wondering if I need to insist on >>>> having 8 units plugged in at once i.e. fully populated, OR, can I just test >>>> one fixture at a time since that¹s how the system is likely to be used >>>> also.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is there a legal requirement or precedent on how this should be tested as >>>> I¹m going round in circles arguing with myself here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Derek. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> SSCLabs, >>>> >>>> Reno, NV. >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >>>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >>>> emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >>>> >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >>>> unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> >>>> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >>>> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 >>>> >>>> - >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >>>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >>>> emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >>>> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >>>> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 >>>> >>>> - >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >>>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >>>> emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >>>> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >>>> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 >>>> >>>> - >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >>>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < >>>> emc-p...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >>>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>>> >>>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >>>> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> >>>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>>> >>>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>>> >>>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>>> Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >>>> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 >>>> >>> >>> - >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >>> <emc-p...@ieee.org> >>> >>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >>> >>> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >>> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >>> unsubscribe) >>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >>> >>> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >>> >>> For policy questions, send mail to: >>> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> >>> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> >>> _________________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >>> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 >> >> - >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> <emc-p...@ieee.org> >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html >> >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >> unsubscribe) >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> >> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> >> _________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: >> https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > _________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: > https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> _________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
