There is a CTL decision DSH 738 about insulation of body of Y capacitor. If you are talking about round coated blue Y caps, for Y1 type coated enclosure can be considered as reinforced insulation except in an area near leg outlet. CTL considered that coating near leg can break during placement on PCB.
However TC40 says this is wrong and they promissed back in 2018 some new guidance. I am still missing that one. I cannot open your drawing. Could you resend? Best regards Bostjan Poslano iz Outlook za Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> ________________________________ Od: Joe Randolph <j...@randolph-telecom.com> Poslano: ponedeljek, marec 11, 2024 7:15:45 PM Za: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Zadeva: Re: [PSES] Y-capacitor body material - considered to be insulating? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. I seem to recall that there are some specifications for the insulating coating in the IEC 60384-14 standard for Y1 caps, but I have not worked with that standard for a while. I agree with John Woodgate that a quick fix might be to place a piece of insulating tape on the surface of the board in the area under the cap. I have seen Kapton tape used quite often to convert a clearance problem into “distance through solid insulation.” Another quick fix that I have seen (possibly for the same reason) is to slide a piece of heat-shrink tubing over the cap and then apply heat to shrink the tubing. The shrinkage of the tubing at the top and bottom of the rounded cap does a nice job of retaining the tubing on the cap. So, if there is a production schedule to be met, some form of added insulation can probably solve the immediate problem. In the long run, it may be possible to change the board layout so that there are no surface traces under the cap. Note that the construction requirements for implementing basic or reinforced insulation within a circuit board provide several easy-to-meet options. This is because the circuit board can be treated as “solid insulation”. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com<mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com> http://www.randolph-telecom.com From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2024 1:36 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Y-capacitor body material - considered to be insulating? I think you have to ask the manufacturer of the capacitors about the insulation quality of the coating, and also test what happens if the insulation does break down; the result might be 'safe' but destructive. At that point, high-voltage spikes on the AC input have to be taken into account. It looks as though changing the PCB would be a simpler solution than trying to prove that it's already OK or than adding a piece of insulating material and checking that it is still there. On 2024-03-11 17:13, James Pawson (U3C) wrote: Hello Group, We are assessing a system that uses class Y1 capacitors for EMC filtering. Because of space constraints, they are laid down horizontally on the PCB. This is causing a problem (at least in my mind) where the capacitor body is now resting on top of the AC input trace. The side of the capacitor connected to PE is the side closest to the AC mains input trace. [?jpg icon]y-cap-body-insulation-question.jpg<https://unit3compliancecouk-my.sharepoint.com/:i:/g/personal/james_unit3compliance_co_uk/EaXJSK9bMYRItCXbdutLJKsBORjTOA5_7Kh0bpPXDC5taw?e=aT7pfK> One of those pieces of received wisdom that has been passed down to me is that “the body of components is not considered to be insulating” for the purposes of assessing creepage and clearance. Common sense says “danger danger Will Robinson” and to change the PCB and/or to add some insulating material, but some technical back up would be welcome. All the best James James Pawson Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver Unit 3 Compliance Ltd EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA : Consultancy www.unit3compliance.co.uk<http://www.unit3compliance.co.uk/> | ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk<mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> +44(0)1274 911747 | +44(0)7811 139957 2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL Registered in England and Wales # 10574298 Office hours: Every morning my full attention is on consultancy, testing, and troubleshooting activities for our customers’ projects. I’m available/contactable between 1300h to 1730h Mon/Tue/Thurs/Fri. For inquiries, bookings, and testing updates please send us an email on he...@unit3compliance.co.uk<mailto:he...@unit3compliance.co.uk> or call 01274 911747. Our lead times for testing and consultancy are typically 4-5 weeks. ________________________________ This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 -- OOO - Own Opinions Only Best wishes John Woodgate, Rayleigh, Essex UK Keep trying [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> ________________________________ This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> ________________________________ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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