answer/comment in line On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Rafael <ra...@linwin.com> wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 04:56 AM, Sarah Armstrong wrote: > > i dont see why not , but the patch will be different probably , i'd need > to > > try it > > why use ubuntu ? , thats another can of worms to get in the way . > > > > debian now has the 2 desktops that minit as > > > > Why use this, why not use that? This is precisely why LinuCNC has no > traction in commercial products. Unless things have changed in the last > 2 months, you cannot find a single CNC machine or good kit on the market > that comes with LinuxCNC. There are two or 3 that mention LinuxCNC as a > possibility but they do not support it. Why? > There is no market for commercial LinuxCNC. I have considered it. I even had a commitment by a machine manufacturer to supply me with new machines without controls. Maybe there would be a market. Maybe I just didn't want to do it. Maybe I just don't care if there is or is not a market. Probably because I like it the way it is. > > That's because NOBODY (manufacturers or distributors) wants to futz with > testing motherboard latencies, problems with their obsolescence, IO > boards, controllers, USB issues, etc. All that is a big concern to > anybody who wants to see LinuxCNC as part of their business. > If one could identify a market and wanted to do it then it would exist no matter the obstacles. > > I asked a number of manufacturers at Makerfaire and other trade shows > and they either don't know about linuxCNC or simply state it's not a > good option for them. They all use something or the other that runs on > Windows PCs only. > The people at Makefaire and other trade shows have a different agenda. Their focus is the products the control is included in or the products made with the controls. LinuxCNC is the focus of most everyone using LinuxCNC. > > LinuxCNC and similar products need to run and be supported for 10+ years > in order to be accepted by the industry. So far I mostly see LinuxCNC > being used for retrofits of all kinds of old machines. That's great but > it is not available in new machines. > I agree. It allows someone to scratch the itch of putting together a cheap machine AND making the machine to intensely sweet things. > > Take http://www.cncrouterparts.com for example. They will tell you (at a > trade show) it's possible to use LinuxCNC but they do not provide such a > solution. They do support commercial program on alternative OS and USB > connection. Why? It's too hard to meet LinuxCNC related hardware > requirements. Especially motherboards. > It is not difficult to run LinuxCNC on most any motherboard. If you can accept less than hard real time control then LinuxCNC will do anything and more than any other control on the market. When you MUST have fast, hard real time control then LinuxCNC is the ONLY answer. This drives the 'hard to meet' requirements of LinuxCNC. The LinuxCNC world does emphasize the hard real time world while telling people it might be better to use a different product if you don't need the capabilities of LinuxCNC. I certainly don't disagree with this. I would venture to say most of the people in the 'other than LinuxCNC' world would not recognize problems related to less than real time control issues. The motion issues and any other issues would not be a problem to most of them. So what? Who cares - if they are happy with what they have and do not feel the need to research it any farther the let them be. > This is where my problem lies. When I tried to recommend a kit like the > above to a relative in EU, I get a question about software support right > away. They could put HW things together, but there is also software. > They would be OK with LinuxCNC based on my recommendation but I cannot > be there to help put things together. The easiest option for them > becomes a machine with software that only runs on Windows even though it > becomes obsolete or unsupported in a couple of years. I'm sure this is > not an isolated case. > In my opinion software support is one of the strong suits of LinuxCNC. You ask for help - you get help. Many times you are overwhelmed with help. There is not just one source for help. You find help all over the world. If you do not wish to learn about the software and how to manipulate it then you will have problems with ANY control you wish to install. Every control needs some type of configuration to tune it to the machine. If you refuse to learn how to configure whichever software you choose to use then you will be very handicapped trying to use the control and machine. > > Somebody mentioned about his interest in starting LinuxCNC related > business last summer if I remember correctly. I did not see any > enthusiastic support for his idea on this list. I hope that this is > changing with "Mesa Reseller in America", a good start but it's not a > complete solution. I wish John Thornton well, to run successful > business, and possibly expand on his offering with complete LinuxCNC > solution from electronics, mechanical hardware (motors, drivers, > sensors), to software. > I certainly wish JT well in his business. With what I know of him in the LinuxCNC world he would have a good chance to make a success of a complete LinuxCNC control offering. If he would choose to do it. > > > things are moving away from ubuntu ,for lots of reasons , some of it is a > > bit deeper , such as python bindings and servicing things such as > > rt-preempt , kernels etc > > they are now becoming vastly different . from what they were a few years > > ago . and will become a even bigger nightmare over the next few years > > which will mean ubuntu will not be able to be supported . > > This leads me to believe there are architectural issues with LinuxCNC > platform. I could not find roadmap on the website to have a better > understanding where this is going, short and long term support, and > upgrade path. All that is important to manufacturers of CNC machines and > retrofit kits. > > A case for different CNC sizes and related COTS hardware could be made > to match 3 or 4 most common LinuxCNC configurations. > > In addition, I believe that linuxCNC needs to be split into two parts > and "sold as such" by default: > - headless LinuxCNC with hard RT kernel to run on different SBCs to > handle all CNC IO > - GUI frontend, local or remote, connected to Linux workstation or > modern tablet over USB, ethernet, or WiFi. Countless digital tablets can > be had for under $100 that could serve as CNC UI. > > A number of open source SBCs are out there ready for CNC use. Open > source means they can be reordered through independent manufacturers > years later if need be. Some are better for this than the other, but > most are fast to handle most CNC tasks without GUI. > > There is much more that comes to mind but this is long already. > > > On 2 February 2016 at 12:42, John Thornton <j...@gnipsel.com> wrote: > > > >> Is it possible to build the Prempt-RT kernel on Linux Mint 13 based on > >> Ubuntu Precise or Linux Mint 17 based on Ubuntu Trusty? This is to be > >> able to use LinuxCNC uspace with a 7i92. > >> > >> Thanks > >> JT > > Open for discussion. > > SOMEONE needs to choose a motherboard/chip set to standardize on. SOMEONE needs to choose I/O to standardize on (for every machine type/style). SOMEONE needs to choose a wiring diagram to standardize on (for every machine type/style). I am not SOMEONE I am only me. Count me out. This a little sarcastic and tongue in cheek while being somewhat serious. :) thanks Stuart > -- > Rafael > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=267308311&iu=/4140 > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Addressee is the intended audience. If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to read this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this without saving or reading, and cease and desist from saving or opening my private correspondence. Thank you for honoring my wish. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=267308311&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
