Gene,

This tool will allow you to check the relative square of a machine tool.

https://www.travers.com/cylindrical-square/p/57-020-263/



On Mon, May 11, 2020, 2:45 PM Chris Albertson <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Mathematically, you don't need an absolute reference.  If you have a
> perfect mill it would still be a perfect mill if put in on a slanted
> floor.  What matters is the relative angles of the axis.
>
> Yes we can mesure these angles with inexpensive tools assuming you
> have one "good" larger size square you can trust.  Those cheap
> inductive distance sensors on eBay have sub-micron repeatibilities.
> They are intended for use as non-contact limit switches and they work
> well for that.  If you put one in a chuck facing down you can detect
> axis tilt.   In fact, you do the same with a dial indictor,   Then you
> scan the sides of your "good" steel square. to detect z-axis tilt.
>
> What the system would do is do a scan and see the error.    Then it
> would compute what compensation is required and does the scan again.
> This way it sees that moving in X or Y no longer effects Z.
>
> But there is nothing you can do about tool orientation.   Drills and
> fly cutters can not be fixed but the system could report the angle you
> would whack it with a mallet then re-test.
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:52 AM Gene Heskett <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Monday 11 May 2020 14:22:26 Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> > > So, lets say I have a machine that has non-tricial kinematics (I mill
> > > with the z-axis tilted 30 degrees) and I write the kinematics routines
> > > correctly.  Then you are saying the machine will not honor accel and
> > > velocity limits?
> > >
> > > But all machines are like this, not 30 degress certainly but some
> > > number of arcseconds.  A nice feature would be to compensate for all
> > > the errors, not just the bed.
> >
> > That then raises the question: What reference point then becomes the one
> > true reference? Do we have the reasonably priced tools to measure it?
> > For me that answer is no, but I have observed many times that the hole I
> > drill by putting the work in the spindle, and a drill straight up from
> > the bed, are oviously out of alignment by the time that hole is 1" deep,
> > I am bending the drill.  This is likely because it was required I remove
> > the post while installing the ball screws, and the post is attached to
> > the base with horizontal bolts into the rear of the base casting,
> > meaning any slop in those boltholes will allow the post to lean left or
> > right at least a degree.  And it is very noticeable.  But, where is the
> > square that I can use to loosen those 4 bolts that mount the post to the
> > rear of the base casting, and adjust it for plumb?  Such a
> > _3_ dimensional square isn't for sale that I know of.
> >
> > > I would not be surprised if non-trivial kinematics is broken as so few
> > > people have machines with not-square axis the code would not be well
> > > tested.   That said, te velocity problem is proportional to the cosine
> > > of the tilt.  It is going to be tiny.
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:03 AM andy pugh <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 18:38, Chris Albertson
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > Perhaps kinematics is the place to do the
> > > > > bed compensation.
> > > >
> > > > We tried that with "probekins" and it turned out not to to work very
> > > > well. external-offsets seems like a better way as it honours accel
> > > > and velocity limits.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > atp
> > > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > > lunatics."
> > > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> >  - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
>
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