Alan, Can you run the motor open loop with a 0V-10V power supply? If you remove the CNC from the loop first then you can measure top speed with 90V and 10V input.
Next, put the CNC system back on it and use the scope to look at the PWM output. If it's not a voltage level but still pulses add a 10uF 16V capacitor across it. Then see if the voltage level changes from 0V to 10V. Baby steps... John > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Condit [mailto:condit.a...@gmail.com] > Sent: September-13-21 1:52 PM > To: Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle setup for 5i25/7i76 > > John, Peter and Gene, > > I have the Cycletrol-150 Manual. It says that you can replace the 5k ohm > potentiometer with a 0-10v analog signal. The 7i76 manual > says that you can use it to replace a 5k potentiometer control (0-10v). So > that should work and indeed seems to be working. I have > tried adjusting the detectors to 90�. I have an old Tectronix scope and they > look pretty good there. It now has a solid �at speed > indication� up to about 250rpm. So now I am suspecting that I don�t have the > PNCConf configuration quite correct for the spindle. > At the top of the range the Speed Indicator fluctuates from about 400 to 600 > rpm while the motor sounds like it is holding dead > steady. > One of my problems is that I don�t actually know what the rpm of the motor > should be at 90volts. It is a Pacific Scientific motor rated > 1.5hp at 110v DC. > > Thanks, > Alan > > > > > I built a new controller for my 9x20 lathe using a 5i25/7i76 combo. I > > thought I had everything working but I still can�t get the > spindle working correctly. > > I have a 1.5hp PMDC treadmill motor that I am controlling with a > > Cycletrol-150 DC controller. The am using the analog out from the > 7i76 to replace the potentiometer to control the spindle speed. I have a 100 > slot encoder with index (homemade) on the spindle. > > > > The spindle starts under LCNC control but I am not getting an �at speed > > indication� at above about 100rpm. The motor sounds like > is is running at a steady speed but the Spindle Speed indicator fluctuates > wildly. I am suspicious of the spindle encoder. Before I was > just running it as a 100 count counter with index and it worked fine. I can�t > figure out in PNCConf how to set up a spindle counter > with index for the 7i76. > > > >> From: "John Dammeyer" <jo...@autoartisans.com> > >> > >> Hi Alan, > >> > >> This is what I found for a Cycletrol DC motor controller. > >> http://www.grahammotorandcontrols.com/item_dc_motor_controller/176B6002/58 > >> > >> > >> There is no guarantee that a PWM output will emulate a potentiometer. > >> That's the first place to look > >> First put the pot back and measure the voltage between the wiper and > >> ground as you control the speed from 0 to full RPM open > loop. And depending on how it's powered be careful that the pot inputs > aren't indirectly connected to ground. > >> > >> It's always possible the speed control won't work unless there is also 5K > >> Ohm between pin 9 and 11. > >> > >> It's also possible the pot changes the resistance (as a rheostat) in a > >> feedback circuit so input PWM may or may not work. > >> > >> Also PWM is exactly that pulse width. Unless you have a filter capacitor > >> across that with a bleeder resistor to ground (Pin 11) the > internal circuit many not integrate the PWM enough for it to work. > >> > >> For example I bought a small Chinese PWM to 0-10V module that has the rule > >> that the PWM frequency can't be higher than 1kHz. > Try it with 10kHz and it won't create a lower voltage. So PWM frequency is a > parameter that must be correct. > >> > >> I also, way back, bought a step/dir to 0-10V controller that produced 10V > >> at 25kHz step rate. The problem was my ELS was > limited to 20kHz so I never could get 10V out of it. > >> > >> I don't believe your 100 PPR encoder is the issue. I'm running my spindle > >> with 60 PPR and can do power tapping on the mill. > >> > >> It may still be possible to find these UHU or HP_UHU kits somewhere. I > >> ended up using them because the GECKO servo drives I > bought were only good to 80V and my servo motors like more than 90V. The > HP_UHU kit was good to over 200VDC. > >> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/servo-motors-drives/342836-uhu-servo-controller-build.html > >> > >> > >> Similarly there are still some STMBL kits out there. These can actually > >> take the smart serial input from the MESA boards or > step/dir. I'm not sure that 0-10V was very implemented. > >> https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/stmbl_servo_motor_drive.html > >> > >> John > >> > >> > >> > >> From: "Peter C. Wallace" <p...@mesanet.com> > >> > >> I would first check the A/B phasing and symmetry by monitoring the A and B > >> inputs with halscope when turning at a slow speed > (say 100 RPM or less) > >> The pins to monitor would be: > >> > >> hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.input-a > >> hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.input-b > >> > >> Ideally both A and B should be square waves (50% duty cycle) > >> and have a 90 degree phase difference (A changes in the middle of B high > >> and B low times and vice versa) > >> > >> > >> Peter Wallace > >> Mesa Electronics > >> > >> > >> > >> From: Gene Heskett <ghesk...@shentel.net> > >> > >> On Sunday 12 September 2021 17:49:43 Alan Condit wrote: > >> > >> > >> getting proper quadrature out of homemade stuff is a bear with 4 sore > >> paws. I know, I done it about 3 times now. I would in your > shoes do this which has worked really well here. > >> > >> How many "gear shifts" do you have between the motor and the actual > >> spindlle? You could probably do more than 2, but thats all > the gears I have on my g0704. I have tally switches on that knob that tell > linuxcnc what, if any, gear it is in. I have a single screw glued > to the side of the drawbar cap that is read by an ATS-667 hall effect device > for the once per turn "index signal" to an encoder. Prowl > ebay and get a cheap 1000 line encoder for a $20 bill, and spin it with the > back of the motor shaft. It will be way to fast to get thru > the average BoB's opto stuff, so you'll have to use one of the encoders in > the 5i25, which can do that fast a signal or hack the BoB to > remove them. Feed the same encoder you are feedingthe index into with the > outputs of this encoder > >> . > >> Not knowing the gear ratio in either gear, I hacked up a counter in hal > >> that starts counting pulses from an encoder on the back of > the spindle motor, counting them for 100 turns of the spindle as seen by the > ATS-667, and freezing the count so you can read it with > a hal-meter. Divide that count by 100 and you have the "SCALE" value for that > gear. Repeat for the other gear. then use the tally > switches and a mux to feed the correct SCALE into that input to linuxcnc. For > my g0704, that scale is a hair over 7,000 in high gear, > and a different hair over 14,000 in low gear. And with that high a scale, > quantization noise flat disappears, allowing very high pid > Pgain values, 20 or more for extremely stiff spindle speed control. I use the > PICO pwm-servo amp, and the only time I can tell the > spindle is loaded really heavily is when the iron in the motor starts > squeaking as that 9.7 amp motor is being throttled at around 18 > amps by the pwm-servo. Thats about 2 hp from a 1 hp rated motor, but its had > 6 years to complain and hasn't, not even asking for > fresh brushes. > >> > >> When you are ready, let me know and I'll pm you my hal files and such so > >> you can cherry pick and use what you want. > >> > >> > >> Take care now Alan. > >> > >> Cheers, Gene Heskett > >> -- > > > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
