In fact, the day the rotor slipped, when the spindle cooled down a bit, it started to work ok until I had the problem again. What I'm mostly worried about is, if this was caused due to an overheat, why did that overheat occur in the first place?
El mié, 8 mar 2023 a las 11:17, Leonardo Marsaglia (<ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió: > Most high speed spindles (such as router spindles) are rather particular >> about how the VFD is configured because of their low inductance. What are >> your settings for base frequency and voltage? You may need to adjust the >> settings for midrange frequency and voltage. What these settings will do >> is adjust the volts/hertz curve to help keep the motor from overcurrent >> when running at lower RPMs, and help prevent stalls/excessive slippage on >> acceleration. These settings usually need to be significantly different >> from most VFD's default setting (which are usually configured for a 60hz >> motor.) > > > Hi Todd, > > I'll take a look and attach my settings as soon as possible for you to > see. But this setup was working well until the extreme heat days started. > > Could it be that the ambient temperature (40ºC or more) could have made > the rotor slip effect worse? Maybe I was on the limit before and the > extreme heat conditions triggered the effect? > > Thank you! > > El mié, 8 mar 2023 a las 10:57, Todd Zuercher (<to...@pgrahamdunn.com>) > escribió: > >> Most high speed spindles (such as router spindles) are rather particular >> about how the VFD is configured because of their low inductance. What are >> your settings for base frequency and voltage? You may need to adjust the >> settings for midrange frequency and voltage. What these settings will do >> is adjust the volts/hertz curve to help keep the motor from overcurrent >> when running at lower RPMs, and help prevent stalls/excessive slippage on >> acceleration. These settings usually need to be significantly different >> from most VFD's default setting (which are usually configured for a 60hz >> motor.) >> >> Todd Zuercher >> P. Graham Dunn Inc. >> 630 Henry Street >> Dalton, Ohio 44618 >> Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Leonardo Marsaglia <ldmarsag...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 10:05 PM >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle problem >> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. >> >> Well, I tested it for almost an hour with no load at 15000 RPM and the >> temperature settled at 55ºC in the bottom side where the bearings for the >> tool holder are, and almost 65º in the body part where the stator is. >> According to one of the Chinese suppliers of these spindles, 75ºC it's a >> pretty common working temperature. I'm still waiting for a detailed answer >> from the factory. This time, the VFD worked fine, no whining with no rotor >> spin. Now I need to cut some wood while monitoring the temperature during >> the process and hope the temperature doesn't go too high. >> >> Anyway, I'm looking for new VFD drives just in case. From what I can tell >> the problem could be the VFD as Gene and Jon pointed out. >> >> I'll let you know how it goes when cutting wood again. >> >> Thanks to all for your help! :) >> >> El dom, 5 mar 2023 a las 18:11, gene heskett (<ghesk...@shentel.net>) >> escribió: >> >> > On 3/5/23 12:59, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: >> > > By the way, one subtle thing I noticed too that leads me to the >> > > bearings >> > as >> > > a problem. >> > > >> > > Normally when the spindle is off and the dust removal vacuum system >> > > is working, the spindle tends to spin by itself because of the >> > > vacuum action on the impeller I installed. This almost never >> > > happened yesterday. So, to sum up: I was able to free turn the >> > > spindle by hand at all times, but the vacuum was not always able to >> > > make it spin the impeller and if it did it wasn't nearly as fast as >> > > days before. This is what makes me suspect about the bearings. Also, >> > > almost all the problems I experienced yesterday were with cutting >> > > forces involved, never with the spindle turning free. Could >> > it >> > > be that the extra heat and torque that's building up because of a >> > > damaged bearing is what's making the VFD triggering for overcurrent? >> > > >> > > What puzzles me still is when the spindle was too hot and with no >> > > load >> > the >> > > VFD only whined and couldn't make the spindle turn. This, as Jon >> > > pointed out, recovered on its own a few minutes later. >> > > >> > > I'll be there doing some tests in a few hours so I'll let you know >> > > if I >> > can >> > > note anything new. >> > > >> > > Again a lot of thanks to you guys for being so kind and helpful! :) >> > > >> > > El sáb, 4 mar 2023 a las 15:51, Leonardo Marsaglia (< >> > ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) >> > > escribió: >> > > >> > >> Hi guys. >> > >> >> > >> Sorry for the OT but I'm having a strange behavior with my spindle >> > >> and >> > I'm >> > >> a little worried. >> > >> >> > >> The problem I had today for the first time is the spindle was >> > >> getting really hot and started to slip (you could hear the >> > >> frequency from the inverter was on spot but the rotor sometimes >> > >> wasn't even turning).After >> > a >> > >> few seconds of slipping the VFD triggered the over current alarm >> > >> and the spindle was stopped. Once the the spindle cooled down it >> > >> worked >> > perfectly. >> > >> This never happened before but also I must clarify that today the >> > ambient >> > >> temperature reached 40⁰C and I'm sure that under that roof where >> > >> the >> > router >> > >> is placed there were 45⁰C so I suspect this has something to do >> > >> with the problem. >> > >> >> > >> The spindle is rated 11kw of max power output and is air cooled. It >> > >> has >> > a >> > >> built in fan motor so it doesn't rely on spindle speed for cooling. >> > >> It always gets warm (there are several labels on the spindle’s body >> > >> for caution because of the heat) but nothing like today. >> > >> >> > >> Could this be normal because of the extremely hot days I'm having >> here? >> > >> Should I think about changing bearings or even rewind the motor? >> > >> I've >> > only >> > >> had the over current alarms when the spindle was too hot. >> > >> >> > >> I will be really thankful if you can share your thoughts about this. >> > >> > I think I'd want to look at the solder joints on the big capacitors in >> > the vfd, keeping in mind that they can hold quite a charge for quite a >> > while when turned off, and that is definitely a lethal voltage. When I >> > said look, I'm looking with an old camera lens for a magnifying glass, >> > checking for hairline cracks in the solder, particularly at the edge >> > of the solder puddle where the copper foil begins, that is a favorite >> > place for some seemingly crazy thermal effects. And you can't just >> > scrape it down to clean copper & bridge it with solder, you must >> > bridge the crack with a piece of suitable gauge copper wire when >> > patching such. And for future crack development protection, a 2% >> > silver bearing solder is much stronger than the usual eutectic mix. >> > >> > Same inspection comments apply to the semi's soldered joints, heat >> > sinks can exert joint breaking forces as they heat. I have a couple >> > of old 16mm projector lenses that get me up close and personal views. >> > An rch looks like a saw log to them. >> > >> >> > >> Thanks for your help as always! >> > >> >> > >> Leonardo. >> > >> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Emc-users mailing list >> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fli >> > > sts.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Cto >> > > ddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C7c75dca8021a427b281508db1f821107%7C5758544c5 >> > > 73f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638138415730530106%7CUnknown%7CTWF >> > > pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI >> > > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s1%2FMmGIe%2BOIgMMj1IgKv6OTsDFxMuEk7ms >> > > t4mMsD%2FGE%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > Cheers, Gene Heskett. >> > -- >> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: >> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." >> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) >> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law >> respectable. >> > - Louis D. Brandeis >> > Genes Web page >> > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgene >> > slinuxbox.net%3A6309%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C7c75d >> > ca8021a427b281508db1f821107%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0 >> > %7C638138415730530106%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ >> > IjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3XtFc >> > wOSBSFmFW5t2k9Bzfka64mLqLY4LnhinVrTrWY%3D&reserved=0> >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Emc-users mailing list >> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist >> > s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz% >> > 40pgrahamdunn.com%7C7c75dca8021a427b281508db1f821107%7C5758544c573f47c >> > ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638138415730530106%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d >> > 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C >> > 3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s1%2FMmGIe%2BOIgMMj1IgKv6OTsDFxMuEk7mst4mMsD%2FGE% >> > 3D&reserved=0 >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C7c75dca8021a427b281508db1f821107%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638138415730530106%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s1%2FMmGIe%2BOIgMMj1IgKv6OTsDFxMuEk7mst4mMsD%2FGE%3D&reserved=0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> > _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
