A spindle motor is an induction motor, not a permanent magnet synchronous motor like a BLDC one. It should not be able to slip and stall like a BLDC can if synchronization is lost. If there is too much slippage or the rotor stalls it should over current the drive.
I suggested checking the cabling, because it sounds like an intermittent problem on one of the phases. But what has me doubting this, is that most VFDs I've worked with will detect such a fault and shut down with an error code reflecting that. (I know nothing about your model drive.) Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -----Original Message----- From: Leonardo Marsaglia <ldmarsag...@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 12:43 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle problem [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. I've checked that the terminals are connected well but I didn't check for the entire cable to be alright. I thought about it but I really didn't think such an intermittent failure could be caused by the cable alone. Do you recommend to install a new cable just in case? El jue., 16 de marzo de 2023 13:37, Todd Zuercher <to...@pgrahamdunn.com> escribió: > Have you checked your cabling between the motor and VFD? > > Todd Zuercher > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > 630 Henry Street > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leonardo Marsaglia <ldmarsag...@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 11:03 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle problem > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > > By the way. Could a not so good earth grounding of the machine cause this > failure? Although the machine is grounded as always and the VFD was working > perfectly for more than 6 months. > > El jue., 16 de marzo de 2023 11:47, Leonardo Marsaglia < > ldmarsag...@gmail.com> escribió: > > > Hi again guys, > > > > Some news about the problem. I just cut 1 board with the spindle working > > perfectly. > > > > Now with the second board we have problems again. Now we don't have > > overcurrent but full rotor slipping. > > > > The VFD reaches the frequency and the whining sounds good but absolutely > > no rotor movement. When I touch by hand I can feel it a little hard to > turn > > and also I can feel the vibration. When I command the VFD to stop the > rotor > > feels like always smooth and with no resistance. > > > > I think I'm going to purchase a new VFD because I don't know how much I > > can play with this one without a solution. I mean an hour ago it was > > working perfectly. And between starts and stops this happens and nothing > > seems to fix it. The spindle is even colder now than when it was working > > ok. > > > > Just wanted to tell you so you can let me know your thoughts, but I guess > > this VFD is the problem. > > > > El mar., 14 de marzo de 2023 21:07, Leonardo Marsaglia < > > ldmarsag...@gmail.com> escribió: > > > >> I can imagine marginal settings push a system over the edge into failure > >>> at extreme temperatures. Just for example, I was setting up a Yaskawa > F7 > >>> hi-frequency drive for a 13kw 24k rpm spindle a couple weeks ago. The > >>> drive was starting and running the spindle seemingly fine while I was > >>> testing it. But when we started production we ran into an issue. > Normally > >>> the drive would only take a few seconds to spin the spindle up to > cutting > >>> speed. But once it was warmed up it would start to over current on > >>> accelerating and pause the acceleration to try to prevent the overload. > >>> The result was the spindle wasn't up to speed when the control started > the > >>> cut and snapped off the bit. The settings were close enough to > prevent the > >>> drive overloading and shutting down but not close enough to get the > spindle > >>> running right. The problem ended up being that the minimum frequency > and > >>> voltage were not set to the defaults (used drive) and the min-volt > setting > >>> was too high causing the drive to overload when starting up the > spindle. > >>> When I was testing it, I was only seeing a brief blip of twenty some > odd > >>> amps of current when the spindle was accelerating from stopped. I > didn't > >>> think that seemed out of place. But once the spindle warmed up it was > >>> enough to freak out the drive and cause it to slow the spindle > acceleration > >>> way down. I can't remember what I changed the minimum voltage from, > but I > >>> lowered it significantly. After doing that the current output to the > >>> spindle when accelerating from stopped stays in the mid-teens, and it > >>> always accelerates quickly at the programmed rate. > >>> > >>> Is your drive a Yaskawa? What exactly are the drive fault messages? > >>> > >> > >> This is a Simphoenix E580 (or E280 depending on the market) chinese VFD. > >> > >> The fault I'm getting is overcurrent during operation. There's an > >> overcurrent during acceleration but that's not the one I'm getting > although > >> the VFD is failing to get to the working speed. There's a parameter I > can > >> try tomorrow that's called revolution tracking start. The manual says > the > >> following: > >> > >> 1: Revolution tracking start > >> It is applicable to the occasion of fault resetting and restart and > >> restart after power-off. The inverter > >> will automatically judge the running speed and direction of the motor, > >> and starts the rotating motor in > >> a smooth and impact-free way according to the detection and judge > >> results; see below figure for the > >> revolution tracking start sketch. > >> > >> I'll keep reading to see If I can find a way to modify the voltage > during > >> acceleration to avoid overcurrent also. > >> > >> > >> El mar, 14 mar 2023 a las 18:06, Todd Zuercher (<to...@pgrahamdunn.com > >) > >> escribió: > >> > >>> I can imagine marginal settings push a system over the edge into > failure > >>> at extreme temperatures. Just for example, I was setting up a Yaskawa > F7 > >>> hi-frequency drive for a 13kw 24k rpm spindle a couple weeks ago. The > >>> drive was starting and running the spindle seemingly fine while I was > >>> testing it. But when we started production we ran into an issue. > Normally > >>> the drive would only take a few seconds to spin the spindle up to > cutting > >>> speed. But once it was warmed up it would start to over current on > >>> accelerating and pause the acceleration to try to prevent the overload. > >>> The result was the spindle wasn't up to speed when the control started > the > >>> cut and snapped off the bit. The settings were close enough to > prevent the > >>> drive overloading and shutting down but not close enough to get the > spindle > >>> running right. The problem ended up being that the minimum frequency > and > >>> voltage were not set to the defaults (used drive) and the min-volt > setting > >>> was too high causing the drive to overload when starting up the > spindle. > >>> When I was testing it, I was only seeing a brief blip of twenty some > odd > >>> amps of current when the spindle was accelerating from stopped. I > didn't > >>> think that seemed out of place. But once the spindle warmed up it was > >>> enough to freak out the drive and cause it to slow the spindle > acceleration > >>> way down. I can't remember what I changed the minimum voltage from, > but I > >>> lowered it significantly. After doing that the current output to the > >>> spindle when accelerating from stopped stays in the mid-teens, and it > >>> always accelerates quickly at the programmed rate. > >>> > >>> Is your drive a Yaskawa? What exactly are the drive fault messages? > >>> > >>> Todd Zuercher > >>> P. Graham Dunn Inc. > >>> 630 Henry Street > >>> Dalton, Ohio 44618 > >>> Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Leonardo Marsaglia <ldmarsag...@gmail.com> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 3:30 PM > >>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > > >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle problem > >>> > >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > >>> > >>> About the configuration. I don't know how to post that without making a > >>> mess but I just used the parameters that the spindle manufacturer sent > me. > >>> With that config I was working ok for more than 6 months. So unless > >>> something was right there at the limit too far from the correct one. > The > >>> main change here is ambient temperature. It's been almost 3 weeks with > >>> temperatures of about 38°C. > >>> > >>> El mar, 14 mar 2023 a las 16:04, Todd Zuercher (<to...@pgrahamdunn.com > >) > >>> escribió: > >>> > >>> > Most of the big VFD manufactures do offer high frequency versions of > >>> > their VFDs but you might have to call and ask for it. For most it is > >>> > simply loading in a special firmware version at the factory that > >>> > allows the drive to be set to the higher frequency. There is usually > >>> > a compromise though and a number of other normal features must be > >>> > disabled because they don't work at the high frequency. For example > >>> > with the current Yaskawa V1000 drive, the high frequency version goes > >>> > up to 1000hz (1500hz under certain circumstances), but it loses all > >>> > auto tuning features, flux vector control and a list of other things > >>> > are disabled. (Comes with a 10page or so supplement to the manual > >>> > covering all of the changes from the stock > >>> > firmware.) But they can be difficult to order. We tried to order a > >>> > new Yaskawa drive more than a year ago, finally last month, after the > >>> > 3rd time of the shipping date getting pushed back, we got tired > >>> > waiting, canceled the order and bought a used drive off Ebay. Also > >>> > they won't sell them to just anyone, you can't live in the wrong > >>> > country and have to offer some proof you have a legitimate use for > it. > >>> > > >>> > PS, I'm still more inclined to thinking either there is a problem > with > >>> > the VFD's configuration, or the spindle bearings are going bad. I've > >>> > never had a drive cause problems like you're describing (not that I > >>> > have that much experience with drives going bad.) Usually either > they > >>> > work or they don't. I've had rectifiers go bad and was able to > >>> > replace them and put the drive back in service. Others that just > died > >>> > I was not able to pinpoint the failure and just had to replace them. > >>> > This last drive I had to replace, I could see being a capacitor > >>> > problem. It would fail to power up for a couple of hours after first > >>> turning on the machine in the morning. > >>> > It would run fine all week as long as it was left on, or if only > >>> > turned off for a few seconds but over night or the weekend it was > wait > >>> > for the power LED on the drive to turn on, then cycle the power to > the > >>> > machine to clear the alarms and you were good to go. > >>> > > >>> > Todd Zuercher > >>> > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > >>> > 630 Henry Street > >>> > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > >>> > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > >>> > > >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> > From: Leonardo Marsaglia <ldmarsag...@gmail.com> > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 1:32 PM > >>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > >>> > <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > >>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle problem > >>> > > >>> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > >>> > > >>> > Hi guys, hope you are doing well. > >>> > > >>> > Well, today I tested it again and had the same behaviour as before. > It > >>> > works perfectly at the beginning but then it fails and gives me an > >>> > overcurrent alarm. > >>> > > >>> > I took it apart and nothing seems to be wrong at first sight. I'm > >>> > thinking about replacing the capacitors module but for that I'll have > >>> > to wait a couple of weeks for the new module to arrive. I can > desolder > >>> > and install new capacitors on this module, but I can't find something > >>> > as big as these ones here in Argentina. So I think I'll get a new VFD > >>> > and with that solved I'll repair this one. > >>> > > >>> > The best VFD I can get here in terms of cost benefit is a YASKAWA > >>> > GA500 that reaches up to 590 Hz. It's more than ok for me since I > >>> > don't usually go more than 500 Hz with this one so that's my solution > >>> at this point. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > El mar, 14 mar 2023 a las 9:16, Todd Zuercher > >>> > (<to...@pgrahamdunn.com>) > >>> > escribió: > >>> > > >>> > > No, they are not. Yes most small high speed router spindles (less > >>> > > than > >>> > > 10hp) are 2 pole. But all of the big HSK-63f tool changer spindles > >>> > > on our big routers at work (9kw+) are 4 pole. Which by the way > >>> > > makes getting a suitable VFD to run them much much more difficult. > >>> > > Most VFDs are limited to max output frequencies of about 500hz. > >>> > > (Something about preventing people from building high speed > >>> > > centrifuges I think.) > >>> > > > >>> > > Todd Zuercher > >>> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > >>> > > 630 Henry Street > >>> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > >>> > > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > >>> > > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- > >>> > > From: Viesturs Lācis <viesturs.la...@gmail.com> > >>> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 6:18 AM > >>> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > >>> > > <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > >>> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle problem > >>> > > > >>> > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > >>> > > > >>> > > Leonardo, are you sure about those Hz vs. RPM numbers? AFAIK all > >>> > > high speed spindles are 2-pole motors (correct me if I am wrong on > >>> > > this), then you should have 200 Hz for 200 RPS = 12000 RPM and 400 > >>> > > Hz for 400 RPS = > >>> > > 24000 RPM > >>> > > > >>> > > Viesturs > >>> > > > >>> > > pirmd., 2023. g. 13. marts, plkst. 18:55 — lietotājs Leonardo > >>> > > Marsaglia (< > >>> > > ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) rakstīja: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > By the way, the nominal frequency is 400 hz at 12000 rpm. > Nominal > >>> > > > voltage is 380 volts but that varies of course when the VFD is > >>> > > > working. Max frequency is 800 hz at 24000 rpm but I never came > >>> > > > close to > >>> > > that. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > El lun, 13 mar 2023 a las 13:50, Leonardo Marsaglia > >>> > > > (<ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) > >>> > > > escribió: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Hi Todd, and thanks for the response! > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > Well the manufacturer only gave nominal and max speed for the > >>> > > > > spindle and a couple of graphics to see the u.f. and p.f. > curves > >>> > > > > to > >>> > > have some guidance. > >>> > > > > I'm always using the spindle at 15000 rpm so I think that's ok. > >>> > > > > Also I've been using it like this for more than 6 months with > no > >>> > > > > troubles and it was working almost 10 hours straight each day. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > The spindle sounds right when at high speed and with no cutting > >>> > > > > forces involved, I can't feel any difference from the first > time > >>> > > > > I tested it. Also by hand it feels the same as always but that > >>> > > > > could be my perception off course. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > Anyway, last Saturday we tested it again. First 25 minutes of > >>> > > > > warming up without cutting. The temperature settled at 55°C at > >>> > > > > the body of the spindle. Then we cut a board for about 40 > >>> > > > > minutes. We monitored the spindle temperature at the bearings > >>> > > > > and stator and never exceeded the 65°C at the stator / 57°C at > >>> > > > > the bearings. VFD current, voltage and internal temperature > were > >>> > > > > ok (no more than 43°C when working at full load on the VFD). > >>> > > > > Then we started to cut another board and that's when the VFD > >>> > > > > started giving problems. At the moment we tried to accelerate > >>> > > > > the spindle to 15000 rpm (I'm using a 10 seconds ramp > >>> > > > > approximately to reach 15000 rpm) the overcurrent alarm started > >>> . There was no way of making it to work. > >>> > > > > It > >>> > > looks to me that the VFD could be the problem because everything > >>> > > else was ok. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > Today I'm going to test it again before taking it apart, and > >>> > > > > then I'll open it and check the capacitors and all the joints > to > >>> > > > > see if I see an evident problem there. But I'm almost 100% sure > >>> > > > > the problem is > >>> > > in the VFD. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > El lun, 13 mar 2023 a las 13:19, Todd Zuercher > >>> > > > > (<to...@pgrahamdunn.com>) > >>> > > > > escribió: > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >> The wrong VFD settings can cause an overheat due to > overcurrent. > >>> > > > >> Were you running the spindle at lower RPMs? Router spindles > >>> > > > >> generally don't like running at speeds less than 6000rpm, > >>> > > > >> especially if the VFD settings aren’t right. The VFD needs to > >>> > > > >> be set so that it reduces the voltage applied with reduced > >>> frequency. > >>> > > > >> If this volt/hz reduction curve isn't right, either you can > >>> > > > >> over current and overheat the motor at lower speeds, or if set > >>> > > > >> too low you lose what little torque the spindle has. To know > >>> > > > >> what these settings need to be set to you need to know the > >>> > > > >> motor's rated speed and voltage at those speeds and current > >>> > > > >> ratings. If the spindle manufacturer didn't supply a midrange > >>> > > > >> voltage setting, you may need > >>> > > to find that setting experimentally. > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> That said, high speed spindle bearings can be failing and the > >>> > > > >> spindle still spin mostly freely by hand, but the spindle will > >>> > > > >> be loud at speed due to vibration and will overheat if run for > >>> > > > >> extended periods of time at speed. A high speed spindle > should > >>> > > > >> be very quiet at speed (not sound like a conventional router > >>> > > > >> motor.) Check for any slightest notchy-ness, when turning the > >>> > > > >> spindle by hand. It is often more cost-effective to have a > >>> > > > >> loud spindle rebuilt before it totally fails, than to run it > >>> > > > >> till it won’t run anymore and then try to rebuilt it or have > to > >>> > > > >> replace it because > >>> > > damage to the spindle is too severe. > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> What are your spindle motor’s rated speed, voltage and > current? > >>> > > > >> What do you have the VFD set up for minimum, maximum, base and > >>> > > > >> mid-range voltages, and frequencies? Yes, those are 8 > separate > >>> > > > >> settings that most VFDs need to have configured to run a high > >>> > > > >> speed spindle correctly. Unfortunately many times the spindle > >>> > > > >> manufacture will only provide you with the spindle’s rated > >>> > > > >> frequency and voltage (use this for the “Base” frequency and > >>> > > > >> voltage in the VFD) and the maximum frequency and maybe > >>> voltage. > >>> > > > >> If you are lucky and the spindle manufacture provided you with > >>> > > > >> some numbers to use for the mid-range settings if so, use > them. > >>> > > > >> They may not be called that, it might just look like a low or > >>> > > > >> minimum speed setting with a reduced voltage (might be 5-7k > >>> rpm). > >>> > > > >> If you don’t have a recommendation from the spindle > >>> > > > >> manufacture, experiment with different mid-range voltage > >>> > > > >> settings to find one that > >>> > > keeps the VFD’s current output safely below the spindles rated > >>> > > continuous current. > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> For example I was just working at replacing a VFD for an HSD > >>> > > > >> spindle that had recommendations for 7k rpm @ 220v for the > >>> > > > >> mid-range, but I also had to set the minimum frequency and > >>> > > > >> voltage to 0.5Hz and 1.0v, to prevent the motor from > >>> > > > >> occasionally stalling on acceleration when starting from > >>> > > > >> stopped. When those settings were incorrect the drive would > >>> > > > >> overcurrent and shut down. When they were close but not quite > >>> > > > >> right the drive would run at high current and not always > >>> > > > >> accelerate correctly (stalling). With them correct the drive > >>> > > > >> accelerates the spindle quickly and only shows peak > >>> > > currents of about 15amps while doing it. > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> PS I meant to send this last week, but forgot to click send, > so > >>> > > > >> it sat on my work computer till this morning. > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> Todd Zuercher > >>> > > > >> P. Graham Dunn Inc. > >>> > > > >> 630 Henry Street > >>> > > > >> Dalton, Ohio 44618 > >>> > > > >> Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >>> > > > >> From: Leonardo Marsaglia <ldmarsag...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 9:20 AM > >>> > > > >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > >>> > > > >> <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > >>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle problem > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> In fact, the day the rotor slipped, when the spindle cooled > >>> > > > >> down a bit, it started to work ok until I had the problem > >>> > > > >> again. What I'm mostly worried about is, if this was caused > due > >>> > > > >> to an overheat, why did that overheat occur in the first > place? > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> El mié, 8 mar 2023 a las 11:17, Leonardo Marsaglia (< > >>> > > > >> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) > >>> > > > >> escribió: > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> > Most high speed spindles (such as router spindles) are > rather > >>> > > > >> > particular > >>> > > > >> >> about how the VFD is configured because of their low > >>> inductance. > >>> > > > >> >> What are your settings for base frequency and voltage? You > >>> > > > >> >> may need to adjust the settings for midrange frequency and > >>> voltage. > >>> > > > >> >> What these settings will do is adjust the volts/hertz curve > >>> > > > >> >> to help keep the motor from overcurrent when running at > >>> > > > >> >> lower RPMs, and help prevent stalls/excessive slippage on > >>> acceleration. > >>> > > > >> >> These settings usually need to be significantly different > >>> > > > >> >> from most VFD's default setting (which are usually > >>> > > > >> >> configured for a 60hz > >>> > > > >> >> motor.) > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > Hi Todd, > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > I'll take a look and attach my settings as soon as possible > >>> > > > >> > for you to see. But this setup was working well until the > >>> > > > >> > extreme heat days > >>> > > > >> started. > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > Could it be that the ambient temperature (40ºC or more) > could > >>> > > > >> > have made the rotor slip effect worse? Maybe I was on the > >>> > > > >> > limit before and the extreme heat conditions triggered the > >>> effect? > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > Thank you! > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > El mié, 8 mar 2023 a las 10:57, Todd Zuercher > >>> > > > >> > (<to...@pgrahamdunn.com>) > >>> > > > >> > escribió: > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> >> Most high speed spindles (such as router spindles) are > >>> > > > >> >> rather particular about how the VFD is configured because > of > >>> > > > >> >> their low inductance. What are your settings for base > >>> > > > >> >> frequency and > >>> > voltage? > >>> > > > >> >> You may need to adjust the settings for midrange frequency > >>> > > > >> >> and voltage. What these settings will do is adjust the > >>> > > > >> >> volts/hertz curve to help keep the motor from overcurrent > >>> > > > >> >> when running at lower RPMs, and help prevent > >>> > > > >> >> stalls/excessive slippage on acceleration. These settings > >>> > > > >> >> usually need to be significantly different from most VFD's > >>> > > > >> >> default setting (which are usually configured for a 60hz > >>> > > > >> >> motor.) > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> Todd Zuercher > >>> > > > >> >> P. Graham Dunn Inc. > >>> > > > >> >> 630 Henry Street > >>> > > > >> >> Dalton, Ohio 44618 > >>> > > > >> >> Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >>> > > > >> >> From: Leonardo Marsaglia <ldmarsag...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2023 10:05 PM > >>> > > > >> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > >>> > > > >> >> <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> > >>> > > > >> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Air cooled router spindle > >>> > > > >> >> problem > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> Well, I tested it for almost an hour with no load at 15000 > >>> > > > >> >> RPM and the temperature settled at 55ºC in the bottom side > >>> > > > >> >> where the bearings for the tool holder are, and almost 65º > >>> > > > >> >> in the body part where the > >>> > > > >> stator is. > >>> > > > >> >> According to one of the Chinese suppliers of these > spindles, > >>> > > > >> >> 75ºC it's a pretty common working temperature. I'm still > >>> > > > >> >> waiting for a detailed answer from the factory. This time, > >>> > > > >> >> the VFD worked fine, no whining with no rotor spin. Now I > >>> > > > >> >> need to cut some wood while monitoring the temperature > >>> > > > >> >> during the process and hope the temperature > >>> > > > >> doesn't go too high. > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> Anyway, I'm looking for new VFD drives just in case. From > >>> > > > >> >> what I can tell the problem could be the VFD as Gene and > Jon > >>> > > > >> >> pointed > >>> > out. > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> I'll let you know how it goes when cutting wood again. > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> Thanks to all for your help! :) > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> El dom, 5 mar 2023 a las 18:11, gene heskett > >>> > > > >> >> (<ghesk...@shentel.net>) > >>> > > > >> >> escribió: > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> > On 3/5/23 12:59, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: > >>> > > > >> >> > > By the way, one subtle thing I noticed too that leads > me > >>> > > > >> >> > > to the bearings > >>> > > > >> >> > as > >>> > > > >> >> > > a problem. > >>> > > > >> >> > > > >>> > > > >> >> > > Normally when the spindle is off and the dust removal > >>> > > > >> >> > > vacuum system is working, the spindle tends to spin by > >>> > > > >> >> > > itself because of the vacuum action on the impeller I > >>> > installed. > >>> > > > >> >> > > This almost never happened yesterday. So, to sum up: I > >>> > > > >> >> > > was able to free turn the spindle by hand at all times, > >>> > > > >> >> > > but the vacuum was not always able to make it spin the > >>> > > > >> >> > > impeller and if it did it wasn't nearly as fast as days > >>> > > > >> >> > > before. This is what makes me suspect about the > bearings. > >>> > > > >> >> > > Also, almost all the problems I experienced yesterday > >>> > > > >> >> > > were with cutting forces involved, never with the > >>> > > > >> >> > > spindle turning free. Could > >>> > > > >> >> > it > >>> > > > >> >> > > be that the extra heat and torque that's building up > >>> > > > >> >> > > because of a damaged bearing is what's making the VFD > >>> > > > >> >> > > triggering for > >>> > > > >> overcurrent? > >>> > > > >> >> > > > >>> > > > >> >> > > What puzzles me still is when the spindle was too hot > >>> > > > >> >> > > and with no load > >>> > > > >> >> > the > >>> > > > >> >> > > VFD only whined and couldn't make the spindle turn. > >>> > > > >> >> > > This, as Jon pointed out, recovered on its own a few > >>> minutes later. > >>> > > > >> >> > > > >>> > > > >> >> > > I'll be there doing some tests in a few hours so I'll > >>> > > > >> >> > > let you know if I > >>> > > > >> >> > can > >>> > > > >> >> > > note anything new. > >>> > > > >> >> > > > >>> > > > >> >> > > Again a lot of thanks to you guys for being so kind and > >>> > > helpful! > >>> > > > >> >> > > :) > >>> > > > >> >> > > > >>> > > > >> >> > > El sáb, 4 mar 2023 a las 15:51, Leonardo Marsaglia (< > >>> > > > >> >> > ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) > >>> > > > >> >> > > escribió: > >>> > > > >> >> > > > >>> > > > >> >> > >> Hi guys. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > >> Sorry for the OT but I'm having a strange behavior > with > >>> > > > >> >> > >> my spindle and > >>> > > > >> >> > I'm > >>> > > > >> >> > >> a little worried. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > >> The problem I had today for the first time is the > >>> > > > >> >> > >> spindle was getting really hot and started to slip > (you > >>> > > > >> >> > >> could hear the frequency from the inverter was on spot > >>> > > > >> >> > >> but the rotor sometimes wasn't even turning).After > >>> > > > >> >> > a > >>> > > > >> >> > >> few seconds of slipping the VFD triggered the over > >>> > > > >> >> > >> current alarm and the spindle was stopped. Once the > the > >>> > > > >> >> > >> spindle cooled down it worked > >>> > > > >> >> > perfectly. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> This never happened before but also I must clarify > that > >>> > > > >> >> > >> today the > >>> > > > >> >> > ambient > >>> > > > >> >> > >> temperature reached 40⁰C and I'm sure that under that > >>> > > > >> >> > >> roof where the > >>> > > > >> >> > router > >>> > > > >> >> > >> is placed there were 45⁰C so I suspect this has > >>> > > > >> >> > >> something to do with the problem. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > >> The spindle is rated 11kw of max power output and is > >>> > > > >> >> > >> air > >>> > > cooled. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> It has > >>> > > > >> >> > a > >>> > > > >> >> > >> built in fan motor so it doesn't rely on spindle speed > >>> > > > >> >> > >> for > >>> > > > >> cooling. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> It always gets warm (there are several labels on the > >>> > > > >> >> > >> spindle’s body for caution because of the heat) but > >>> > > > >> >> > >> nothing > >>> > > like today. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > >> Could this be normal because of the extremely hot days > >>> > > > >> >> > >> I'm having > >>> > > > >> >> here? > >>> > > > >> >> > >> Should I think about changing bearings or even rewind > >>> > > > >> >> > >> the > >>> > > motor? > >>> > > > >> >> > >> I've > >>> > > > >> >> > only > >>> > > > >> >> > >> had the over current alarms when the spindle was too > >>> hot. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > >> I will be really thankful if you can share your > >>> > > > >> >> > >> thoughts about > >>> > > > >> this. > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > I think I'd want to look at the solder joints on the big > >>> > > > >> >> > capacitors in the vfd, keeping in mind that they can hold > >>> > > > >> >> > quite a charge for quite a while when turned off, and > that > >>> > > > >> >> > is definitely a lethal voltage. When I said look, I'm > >>> > > > >> >> > looking with an old camera lens for a magnifying glass, > >>> > > > >> >> > checking for hairline cracks in the solder, particularly > >>> > > > >> >> > at the edge of the solder puddle where the copper foil > >>> > > > >> >> > begins, that is a favorite place for some seemingly crazy > >>> > > > >> >> > thermal effects. And you can't just scrape it down to > >>> > > > >> >> > clean copper & bridge it with solder, you must bridge the > >>> > > > >> >> > crack with a piece of suitable gauge copper wire when > >>> > > > >> >> > patching such. And for future crack development > >>> > > > >> >> > protection, a 2% silver bearing solder is much stronger > >>> > > > >> than the usual eutectic mix. > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > Same inspection comments apply to the semi's soldered > >>> > > > >> >> > joints, heat sinks can exert joint breaking forces as > they > >>> > > > >> >> > heat. I have a couple of old 16mm projector lenses that > >>> > > > >> >> > get me up close and > >>> > > > >> personal views. > >>> > > > >> >> > An rch looks like a saw log to them. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > >> Thanks for your help as always! > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > >> Leonardo. > >>> > > > >> >> > >> > >>> > > > >> >> > > > >>> > > > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > >> >> > > Emc-users mailing list > >>> > > > >> >> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > > >> >> > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhttp%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495377199%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iRZdnfpBDbDBtJXwbWyd7XKstZg2Brjz%2Ft%2BodzYcBVc%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > > s% > >>> > > > >> >> > > 3A > >>> > > > >> >> > > %2F%2< > >>> > > > >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F > >>> > > > >> %2 > >>> > > > >> 52 > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > > Fli%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7Ca716ced2 > >>> > > > >> >> > > cd > >>> > > > >> >> > > 8b > >>> > > > >> >> > > 45443 > >>> > > > >> >> > > > b1208db1fe039ab%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7 > >>> > > > >> >> > > C0 > >>> > > > >> >> > > %7 > >>> > > > >> >> > > C6381 > >>> > > > >> >> > > > 38820129481532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM > >>> > > > >> >> > > DA > >>> > > > >> >> > > iL > >>> > > > >> >> > > CJQIj > >>> > > > >> >> > > > oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C > >>> > > > >> >> > > &s > >>> > > > >> >> > > da > >>> > > > >> >> > > ta=rj > >>> > > > >> >> > > > 6R%2BZb94rpPdzr%2F32kOery9rQ%2Ft47LLFaSdSWYo5h4%3D&reser > >>> > > > >> >> > > ve > >>> > > > >> >> > > d= > >>> > > > >> >> > > 0 > >>> > > > >> >> > > sts.sourceforge.net > %2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data= > >>> > > > >> >> > > 05 > >>> > > > >> >> > > %7 > >>> > > > >> >> > > C01%7 > >>> > > > >> >> > > Cto > >>> > > > >> >> > > ddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C7c75dca8021a427b281508db1f821107 > >>> > > > >> >> > > %7 > >>> > > > >> >> > > C5 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 75854 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 4c5 > >>> > > > >> >> > > > 73f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638138415730530106%7CU > >>> > > > >> >> > > nk > >>> > > > >> >> > > no > >>> > > > >> >> > > wn%7C > >>> > > > >> >> > > TWF > >>> > > > >> >> > > > pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 > >>> > > > >> >> > > ha > >>> > > > >> >> > > Ww > >>> > > > >> >> > > iLCJX > >>> > > > >> >> > > VCI > >>> > > > >> >> > > > 6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s1%2FMmGIe%2BOIgMMj1IgKv6O > >>> > > > >> >> > > Ts > >>> > > > >> >> > > DF > >>> > > > >> >> > > xMuEk > >>> > > > >> >> > > 7ms > >>> > > > >> >> > > t4mMsD%2FGE%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > >>> > > > >> >> > -- > >>> > > > >> >> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > >>> > > > >> >> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that > order." > >>> > > > >> >> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for > >>> > > > >> >> > the law, we must first make the law > >>> > > > >> >> respectable. > >>> > > > >> >> > - Louis D. Brandeis > >>> > > > >> >> > Genes Web page > >>> > > > >> >> > < > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http% > >>> > > > >> >> > 3A > >>> > > > >> >> > %2 > >>> > > > >> >> > F%2Fg%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C5c61d550 > >>> > > > >> >> > a0 > >>> > > > >> >> > 93 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 493cecaf08db2475a685%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C > >>> > > > >> >> > 0% > >>> > > > >> >> > 7C > >>> > > > >> >> > > 0%7C638143859985022697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 > >>> > > > >> >> > wL > >>> > > > >> >> > jA > >>> > > > >> >> > > wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 > >>> > > > >> >> > %7 > >>> > > > >> >> > C% > >>> > > > >> >> > > 7C%7C&sdata=48s1PKOthDl3Q%2FskZ3UcRsFQM51BkvwWffsflmJwVI0% > >>> > > > >> >> > 3D > >>> > > > >> >> > &r > >>> > > > >> >> > eserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > ene%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7Ca716ced2cd > >>> > > > >> >> > 8b > >>> > > > >> >> > 45 > >>> > > > >> >> > 443b1 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 208db1fe039ab%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7 > >>> > > > >> >> > C6 > >>> > > > >> >> > 38 > >>> > > > >> >> > 13882 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 0129481532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ > >>> > > > >> >> > QI > >>> > > > >> >> > jo > >>> > > > >> >> > iV2lu > >>> > > > >> >> > > MzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=q > >>> > > > >> >> > og > >>> > > > >> >> > Bf > >>> > > > >> >> > XcZjM > >>> > > > >> >> > 79r1NazIK82mCzsnrm4jJaRwbSLdvvPMg%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > slinuxbox.net > %3A6309%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn > >>> > > > >> >> > .c > >>> > > > >> >> > om > >>> > > > >> >> > %7C7c > >>> > > > >> >> > 75d > >>> > > > >> >> > > ca8021a427b281508db1f821107%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806 > >>> > > > >> >> > fb > >>> > > > >> >> > 43 > >>> > > > >> >> > %7C0% > >>> > > > >> >> > 7C0 > >>> > > > >> >> > > %7C638138415730530106%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w > >>> > > > >> >> > Lj > >>> > > > >> >> > Aw > >>> > > > >> >> > MDAiL > >>> > > > >> >> > CJQ > >>> > > > >> >> > > IjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C > >>> > > > >> >> > &s > >>> > > > >> >> > da > >>> > > > >> >> > ta=3X tFc > >>> > > > >> >> > wOSBSFmFW5t2k9Bzfka64mLqLY4LnhinVrTrWY%3D&reserved=0> > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > >> >> > Emc-users mailing list > >>> > > > >> >> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > > >> >> > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https% > >>> > > > >> >> > 3A > >>> > > > >> >> > %2 > >>> > > > >> >> > F%2Fl%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C5c61d550 > >>> > > > >> >> > a0 > >>> > > > >> >> > 93 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 493cecaf08db2475a685%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C > >>> > > > >> >> > 0% > >>> > > > >> >> > 7C > >>> > > > >> >> > > 0%7C638143859985022697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 > >>> > > > >> >> > wL > >>> > > > >> >> > jA > >>> > > > >> >> > > wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000 > >>> > > > >> >> > %7 > >>> > > > >> >> > C% > >>> > > > >> >> > > 7C%7C&sdata=9WxxwxeFG4mKKZhND%2BOxJCfZRJDzNb%2FWQo0ICNHy%2 > >>> > > > >> >> > Fm > >>> > > > >> >> > w% > >>> > > > >> >> > 3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > ist%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7Ca716ced2cd > >>> > > > >> >> > 8b > >>> > > > >> >> > 45 > >>> > > > >> >> > 443b1 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 208db1fe039ab%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7 > >>> > > > >> >> > C6 > >>> > > > >> >> > 38 > >>> > > > >> >> > 13882 > >>> > > > >> >> > > 0129481532%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ > >>> > > > >> >> > QI > >>> > > > >> >> > jo > >>> > > > >> >> > iV2lu > >>> > > > >> >> > > MzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=d > >>> > > > >> >> > Au > >>> > > > >> >> > IK > >>> > > > >> >> > CeZqg > >>> > > > >> >> > NHtCWkxG4a%2Bi7p332%2FkPW%2FQNlxo85am7o%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > s.sourceforge.net > %2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7 > >>> > > > >> >> > C0 > >>> > > > >> >> > 1% > >>> > > > >> >> > 7Ctod > >>> > > > >> >> > dz% > >>> > > > >> >> > 40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C7c75dca8021a427b281508db1f821107%7C575 > >>> > > > >> >> > 85 > >>> > > > >> >> > 44 > >>> > > > >> >> > c573f > >>> > > > >> >> > 47c > >>> > > > >> >> > > ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638138415730530106%7CUnknown%7 > >>> > > > >> >> > CT > >>> > > > >> >> > WF > >>> > > > >> >> > pbGZs > >>> > > > >> >> > b3d > >>> > > > >> >> > > 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV > >>> > > > >> >> > CI > >>> > > > >> >> > 6M > >>> > > > >> >> > n0%3D > >>> > > > >> >> > %7C > >>> > > > >> >> > > 3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=s1%2FMmGIe%2BOIgMMj1IgKv6OTsDFxMuEk7ms > >>> > > > >> >> > t4 > >>> > > > >> >> > mM > >>> > > > >> >> > sD%2F > >>> > > > >> >> > GE% > >>> > > > >> >> > 3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > >> >> Emc-users mailing list > >>> > > > >> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A > >>> > > > >> >> %2 > >>> > > > >> >> F% > >>> > > > >> >> 2Flis%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C5c61d550a0 > >>> > > > >> >> 93 > >>> > > > >> >> 49 > >>> > > > >> >> > 3cecaf08db2475a685%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C > >>> > > > >> >> 0% > >>> > > > >> >> 7C > >>> > > > >> >> > 638143859985022697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM > >>> > > > >> >> DA > >>> > > > >> >> iL > >>> > > > >> >> > CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7 > >>> > > > >> >> C& > >>> > > > >> >> sd > >>> > > > >> >> > ata=5uvf8vSaMWJ7BHGVWpA370oom4NAkomVmqW3r1Cigro%3D&reserved= > >>> > > > >> >> 0 > >>> > > > >> >> ts.sourceforge.net > %2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C > >>> > > > >> >> 01 > >>> > > > >> >> %7 > >>> > > > >> >> Ctodd > >>> > > > >> >> z%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7Ca716ced2cd8b45443b1208db1fe039ab%7C575 > >>> > > > >> >> 85 > >>> > > > >> >> 44 > >>> > > > >> >> c573f > >>> > > > >> >> > 47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638138820129481532%7CUnknown% > >>> > > > >> >> 7C > >>> > > > >> >> TW > >>> > > > >> >> FpbGZ > >>> > > > >> >> > sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ > >>> > > > >> >> XV > >>> > > > >> >> CI > >>> > > > >> >> 6Mn0% > >>> > > > >> >> > 3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WUmFbAPwypt9tfFngQOn0ADiTlgp1bXQ7IF > >>> > > > >> >> g5 > >>> > > > >> >> dm > >>> > > > >> >> HEL0% > >>> > > > >> >> 3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > >> >> Emc-users mailing list > >>> > > > >> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > > >> >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A > >>> > > > >> >> %2 > >>> > > > >> >> F% > >>> > > > >> >> 2Flis%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C5c61d550a0 > >>> > > > >> >> 93 > >>> > > > >> >> 49 > >>> > > > >> >> > 3cecaf08db2475a685%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C > >>> > > > >> >> 0% > >>> > > > >> >> 7C > >>> > > > >> >> > 638143859985022697%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM > >>> > > > >> >> DA > >>> > > > >> >> iL > >>> > > > >> >> > CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7 > >>> > > > >> >> C& > >>> > > > >> >> sd > >>> > > > >> >> > ata=5uvf8vSaMWJ7BHGVWpA370oom4NAkomVmqW3r1Cigro%3D&reserved= > >>> > > > >> >> 0 > >>> > > > >> >> ts.sourceforge.net > %2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C > >>> > > > >> >> 01 > >>> > > > >> >> %7 > >>> > > > >> >> Ctodd > >>> > > > >> >> z%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7Ca716ced2cd8b45443b1208db1fe039ab%7C575 > >>> > > > >> >> 85 > >>> > > > >> >> 44 > >>> > > > >> >> c573f > >>> > > > >> >> > 47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638138820129481532%7CUnknown% > >>> > > > >> >> 7C > >>> > > > >> >> TW > >>> > > > >> >> FpbGZ > >>> > > > >> >> > sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ > >>> > > > >> >> XV > >>> > > > >> >> CI > >>> > > > >> >> 6Mn0% > >>> > > > >> >> > 3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WUmFbAPwypt9tfFngQOn0ADiTlgp1bXQ7IF > >>> > > > >> >> g5 > >>> > > > >> >> dm > >>> > > > >> >> HEL0% > >>> > > > >> >> 3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> >> > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > >> Emc-users mailing list > >>> > > > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F > >>> > > > >> %2 > >>> > > > >> Fl%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7Cba8844617fcb4048 > >>> > > > >> ef > >>> > > > >> > 7c08db24b24e99%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638 > >>> > > > >> 14 > >>> > > > >> > 4120480147571%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI > >>> > > > >> jo > >>> > > > >> > 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>> wi > >>> > > > >> LC > >>> > > > >> > JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2xfG6S5CCgkzhkmbXtQmWqZcwq02 > >>> > > > >> Om > >>> > > > >> ih > >>> > > > >> 1B2iVvFgNzw%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > > > Emc-users mailing list > >>> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F > >>> > > > li%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C90f8aee037a840a406d > >>> > > > > f08db24c2c374%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C6381441 > >>> > > > > 91179607968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2 > >>> > > > > luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QsEWfzv > >>> > > > IBtJ6gJVkoTY16jGGwd9IH3zP3Q5Ia6fN9D4%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > > st%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7Cba8844617fcb4048ef7 > >>> > > > c0 > >>> > > > > 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Emc-users mailing list > >>> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > > >>> > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fli%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YDedAqRX4MEBjw91S%2F62aImjT4w3Yr%2BahYKBmZQf030%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > st%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C90f8aee037a840a406df0 > >>> > > > 8db24c2c374%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C63814419117 > >>> > > > 9607968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi > >>> > > > LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=B%2BM%2BsZQMFQg > >>> > > LZXEvCvMVAlW%2B6AbXaLLygsWhfzV2ASI%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > > s.sourceforge.net > %2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctodd > >>> > > z% > >>> > > 40pgrahamdunn.com > 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https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PwYqKP1OTteMuj43g7Xk6JsijHtFvbC%2FhlcvoSgWCc0%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > s.sourceforge.net > %2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz% > >>> > 40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C90f8aee037a840a406df08db24c2c374%7C5758544c573f47c > >>> > > ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638144191179607968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > >>> > > 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C > >>> > > 3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=26GmY42l7yF1fTcYTyf8JsNLTh9n1BEjiVvZyseE0oo%3D&res > >>> > erved=0 > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > Emc-users mailing list > >>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PwYqKP1OTteMuj43g7Xk6JsijHtFvbC%2FhlcvoSgWCc0%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > s.sourceforge.net > %2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz% > >>> > 40pgrahamdunn.com > %7C90f8aee037a840a406df08db24c2c374%7C5758544c573f47c > >>> > > ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638144191179607968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d > >>> > > 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C > >>> > > 3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=26GmY42l7yF1fTcYTyf8JsNLTh9n1BEjiVvZyseE0oo%3D&res > >>> > erved=0 > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Emc-users mailing list > >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > >>> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YJjnwA25Nm2I%2FEs86TCb4mNuU4BoBPAb59kJ55Z3Gn0%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Emc-users mailing list > >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YJjnwA25Nm2I%2FEs86TCb4mNuU4BoBPAb59kJ55Z3Gn0%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YJjnwA25Nm2I%2FEs86TCb4mNuU4BoBPAb59kJ55Z3Gn0%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YJjnwA25Nm2I%2FEs86TCb4mNuU4BoBPAb59kJ55Z3Gn0%3D&reserved=0 > _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cea286fcef4d14914c24a08db263da6a3%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638145818495533443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YJjnwA25Nm2I%2FEs86TCb4mNuU4BoBPAb59kJ55Z3Gn0%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
