H Curt et al 11 Ways to escape the symbolic Field
Thank you Curt to not just accept the constraints (language) of post post structuralistic people. This was also - I think - the point of Merleau's controversy towards Sartre's existentialism Apart from being pushed to a (pre?) romanticism it looks like as if when 'reality' leaks out from idiosyncratisms such as glitch/glitch-art/art it is met with a forcefull repulsion to stay in just that same realm of 'containment'. As if the 'contents' are for ever to be hidden by the 'package' A glitch or a rupture should or can reveal the contents through the package, whether the package is an art/philosophical societal/political or an otherwise rigid authoritarian systemic world constructing machinic device That makes me think - again - how wrong McLuhan was: the meaning is not the message/massage, the meaning is the package and as such 'no-meaning / no-knowing' or the 'unknown unknows' are revealed through cracks in the semantic surface Andreas http://nictoglobe.com/AudioPerdu/listen.m3u Sent from my eXtended BodY On 9 dec. 2011, at 21:52, Curt Cloninger <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Eduardo (Andreas, and all), > > The apparant paradox of "The void is all there is" merely reveals the > prejudice toward "presence" which is built into predicative language systems. > It doesn't really prove anything other than language is unable to access The > Artist Formerly Known As The Void (which seems to be Andreas' point). > > Just because a concensus of post-post-structuralist people have agreed to use > language to reduce the entire world to language, that doesn't mean all > contemporary people have to drink that same flavor of cool aid. There are > other plateaus of immanence besides language (that "exists" in "realms" other > than ascii-centric listservs). Yes, a romantic quest ideed (but hopefully > rigorous); within and without language. > > Way Off and/or On Topic, > Curt > > > > At 10:11 PM -0500 12/8/11, Eduardo Navas wrote: >> Dear Andreas, >> >> I think others have moved past my comment on to more complex ground, but I >> should follow up to a couple of points you make. >> >> On discourse: the very fact that we are communicating about the specificity >> of glitch as an art form is proof enough that we are dealing within a >> specialized field. This is all my statement means. >> >> Regarding your statement on the "pre-discursive," it is safe to say that in >> our times, it is common knowledge, at least based on what is left to us >> after poststructuralism, that it is impossible to function outside the >> symbolic. There is no such thing as "pre-discursive." A search for such an >> element may closely appear to be romantic. >> >> To this effect, your statement: "The void is *all* there *is*" exposes that >> through negation existence is confirmed. >> Best, >> >> Eduardo Navas >> >> On 12/8/11 6:19 AM, "Andreas Maria Jacobs" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> hmm >> >> I wonder why discourse should have relevance at all, I think what matters is >> to uncover a field which is *inherently* pre-discursive and *existent but >> not known* and consequently *before* any possibility of interpretation. >> >> Artists task is to observe - from their own subjectivities - a *probable* - >> because not yet commonly perceived - future understanding of the phenomenal >> appearances of perceived/sensual *reality* >> >> Also I do think that just that makes it possible to (re)gain *truthful* >> insight in *reality*, wether technological, political, societal or personal >> and where aesthetics plays no role. (i.e. whether it is boring or not, does >> not matter, because that again is discursive and supposedly based on >> previous knowledgeability of the mental gestalts of being bored, surprised, >> touched etc etc ) >> >> The conservative - literary - *art worlds* collect, maintain and indeed >> conserve quasi-religious fetishized material forms, which are but indicators >> of what lies beyond them >> >> Andreas Maria Jacobs >> >> "The void is *all* there *is*" >> > _______________________________________________ > empyre forum > [email protected] > http://www.subtle.net/empyre _______________________________________________ empyre forum [email protected] http://www.subtle.net/empyre
