On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:33:21 +0900 Toma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > Heres whats happened so far! > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2008-March/009303.html > > Here are some of the summaries from people... > "yeah, i'd really like to see this happen too. it requires someone to write > the spec and start with implementations ... we've sort of all been staring at > each other for a few years now waiting for someone to have the time and > energy to do it. " > -A Seigo (KDE Developer) > > "It doesn't make sense to try to write a new > spec without having at least a proof-of-concept implementation. I hate the > current systray too, and I have somewhere an unfinished attempt at a better > implementation, but it's in the queue with many other things. Saying how the > systray needs fixing is unfortunately not going to do that, somebody needs to > find the time to make it happen." > -L Lunak (KDE developer) > > No news from anyone in the Gnome camp yet, but I get the impression > that everyone, including some people in the E camp that hate the > notion of having a systray at all. > Feel free to read the archive so far and/or join in the systray > bashing on the mailing list there. > Toma
it was the gnome camp last time that poo-pooed any changes to systray. seigo was all for improving/fixing the spec. i sent changes to the spec to the list a full description of the ideas, but nothing happened. i always intended to actually implement these changes. > On 05/03/2008, Toma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Great. > > Heres the spec in question if anyone wants to read and add anything. > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/systemtray-spec/systemtray-spec-0.2.html > > > > Also this interesting little article. > > http://www.xvsxp.com/interface/menuextrastray.php > > > > > > Toma > > > > > > > > On 05/03/2008, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 23:59:44 +0900 Toma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > > > > > > > > > > Im trying to get some chatter about a new systray spec on the > > > > freedesktop.org mailing list. > > > > Since Im no programmer myself, I would like to try to just solidify > > > > some points that you all have and then put them all together and mail > > > > it into them. > > > > I figure the problem wont fix itself and some of you have some good > > > > ideas for it. > > > > Lets make some noise about this while KDE4 is fresh and see if any > > > > collaboration in that respect can happen. > > > > Toma > > > > > > > > > well i've made them before on the wm spec list, so here goes: > > > > > > 1. systray "icon" windows are all implemented as solid windows. they > > > are a hack around using icon windows in good old ICCCM but no better > > > functionally - just much more obfuscated with all the selection > > > mechanism stuff. as such they suffer the problems of icon windows: > > > 1.1 can only have 1 copy of them on screen in 1 place. doesn't allow a > > > tray to duplicate visual copies of them or functional ones. > > > 1.2 they are windows - the implementations all assume that a tray will > > > be in the same toolkit as the app (gtk just creates little grey box > > > windows, kde/qt assume copyfromparent is a good idea for the background > > > - which is a bad assumption). as such the spec discourages good > > > implementation. 1.3 the spec should use the NETWM_ICON property to > > > deliver an ARGB image to display. the tray can scale, draw, composite or > > > whatever it wants. it can no create multiple copies. if the icon needs > > > to change - a property change will do the job. doing more is probably > > > abusing systray icons far beyond what they should be used for. > > > 1.4 as such systray icons have just become a way for apps to avoid > > > showing a main window but stay running. they function often simply as a > > > replacement for iconification in icccm. thus using the same mechanism is > > > the better way to go. > > > > > > 2. as such icons want some form of interaction with users - do be able > > > to click on them to activate something or pop up a menu/dialog/popup of > > > some sort. 2.1 we should implement a protocol via which an app can > > > advertise some form of menu/popup structure to the systray so the > > > systray can consistently implement menus on all systray icons in 1 style > > > and 1 unified look. this falls in line with what is done in qtopia for > > > the menu window (they use qcop to deliver this data) and with hildon on > > > the n770/800/810 and the separated menu window. it would absorb this > > > functionality as a unit on its own 2.2 in the case a systray cannot > > > display what is needed being able to pass events (mouse motion, enter, > > > leave, press and release events) as well as location of the tray icon > > > relative to the root window. > > > > > > this way 1. the tray icons can be displayed with a consistent look > > > irrespective of the toolkit or tray app, 2. can be placed in more than 1 > > > location if desired, 3. can have a consistent look of any popup menus > > > and controls and a consistent set of interaction, 3. will match more > > > with the usage of the tray spec, 4. roll in other systems of abstracting > > > this kind of "out of window control" element from other UI systems > > > (qtopia, hildon). > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
