On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Jose Gonzalez <jose_...@juno.com> wrote: > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >> On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:28:54 +1000 David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> said: >> >> >>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:01:13 -0400 Ross Vandegrift <r...@kallisti.us> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 06:42:22AM +1000, David Seikel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thirdly, and this is most important, STOP CCINC ME, I"M ON THE DAMN >>>>> LIST!!!! >>>>> >>>>> As a programmer I don't like to see duplicate code. >>>>> >>>>> Please don't CC me any replies to things I say on the list. I'm on >>>>> the list and will see it anyway. >>>>> >>>> Then turn on de-duplication in mailman for the mailing list. Every >>>> message has a link at the bottom to the Mailman preferences. You want >>>> to turn on "Avoid duplicate copies of messages". This will prevent >>>> mailman from sending you copies of messages where you appear in the To >>>> or CC field. >>>> >>> That feature is already turned on. >>> >>> >>>> First, and foremost, a responder has no clue if a CCed address is a >>>> list member or not. >>>> >>> Well, the worst offender is raster, and he knows I'm on the list. >>> >>> >>>> Second, some people (like me) sometimes prefer to get CCs to my >>>> messages. For some lists, I filter the list into a folder, but CCs >>>> go into my inbox. This flags me when someone responds to *me*. >>>> >>> Maybe you could set up your filters differently? Certainly I never >>> knew you wanted CCs, and nothing in these various systems >>> automatically send you CCs. >>> >>> >>>> Third, the relatively well-established mailing list management >>>> methodology (at least among free software development mailing lists) >>>> is to Reply-To-All and let individual preference settings shake out >>>> how mail actually gets delivered. The mailing list is for listing >>>> members - it should not enfore delivery policy. >>>> >>> Well, my email software has a "reply to list" button, which works >>> quite nicely. I am now or have been on many free software development >>> lists, and really only get this problem with a small handful of >>> developers, not the entire free software community. Pretty much all >>> those developers are on this list. And given that it's only a few >>> developers doing this, I guess that your well established methodology >>> is only being followed by these few people. shrugs >>> >>> Taking that to it's logical conclusion, eveybody that ever said >>> anything in a particular thread must be on the CC list, for every >>> thread on a list, and most of those people are on the list. So why >>> bother with the list in the first place? Mailing lists are supposed >>> to get away from having to manage long CC lists. >>> >>> A more useful method, and also well established, is for people posting >>> to lists they are not on to say so, and request a CCed reply. I see >>> that happening a lot. Going with the general principle of not sending >>> people things they don't ask for, and especially not sending them >>> things they specifically ask to not be sent, is just polite. >>> >>> None of the above explains why the C list on that particular thread >>> seems to be growing. Is there a real problem behind that somewhere? I >>> was half expecting to see my name on the CC list twice after posting my >>> rant. lol >>> >> >> 1. i never add anyone to cc's who i don't explicitly want to cc. check the >> thread. you'll notice i simple hit "reply to all". do you really think i'm >> going to hand-inspect the cc list every time i reply to a mail and >> hand-modify >> it figuring out who is and isn't on the list? i hit reply all and let it >> churn. >> i don't have time for such wastes of time. >> >> 2. i'm not an offender in adding anyone to cc's. the only thing that gets >> ADDED to cc's by my client is the list itself. i don't add individual mail >> addresses to cc's unless i'm trying to add someone off-list. get those facts >> right before pointing fingers. i hit reply to all because anyone added TO >> cc's >> by someone elese is someone they wanted to include in the conversation. >> there is no reply to list in my mailer. when one replies to all the To: , the >> From: and the CC's are all added into the targets, this is standard. there is >> no way i am going to hand inspect all those fields and guess who may and may >> not be on lists. i've hit "reply to" before and managed to take people out of >> conversations and been brought up on it and asked not to do so. a few times >> before. i dont do that anymore. it annoys people too. reply to all it shall >> be. >> i'm not going to choose beteween complaints from you or complaints from >> others. >> there is no winning. someone is going to be annoyed. if i have to choose i'd >> rather more people get the mail than less as then they can choose if they >> care. >> so your conclusion of "eveybody that ever said anything in a particular >> thread >> must be on the CC list" is false as *I* am definitely not adding PEOPLE to >> the >> cc list every time i reply to them. whoever is already on the cc is added, >> the >> list is added to cc's if not already there and the originator of the mail is >> put in to To:. you'll notice that the cc lists are not "long" at all. >> they generally have at most 2 addresses. this thread you complain about >> is an exception. research your facts. actually look at the thread to see >> where >> your address was explicitly added to cc's. you will find that it sure as hell >> was not me. my mail simply passed it on. it's really annoying to have people >> point fingers without at least researching the facts right under their noses. >> >> 3. so you get a few copies. big deal. hit delete. you rant is excess traffic >> to >> with many duplicated lines, and in this case sent to everyone on the list - >> duplicated 100's of times in being sent to each list member, where the cc's >> were only single duplicates per target - in this case all duplications >> knowingly and explicitly created by you. you ask others to abide by your >> strict >> rules, yet you do not follow them. i see at least 1 mail from you where you >> do >> the same: cc people already on the list. i have it here in my inbox. >> >> so please. 1. stop ranting. 2. stop repeating yourself. 3. get your facts >> right >> before pointing fingers. 4. get used to hitting delete. >> >> > > Well, I applaud David for finally bringing this serious issue > to light.. it's something that's been festering in our community > for far too long. > > Many people find this kind of careless CCism extremely offensive, > and it affects our ability to build a more inclusive community. > > I believe an apology from you is in order, and that you refrain > from this blatant CCism in the future. > If you don't then I suggest that the community should no longer > consider you as a representative of "e", that you not be invited to > speak anywhere, and that you be shunned and condemned for your CCist > behavior. > > It's time we stop putting up with this and take serious steps > to ensure that everyone thinks, speaks, and acts as a member of a > truly enlightened community.
are you on drugs? If so, which one? they might be heavy! :-D and just for the sake of making it even funnier, you just CC'd raster, the thing that is being complained here... and yes, I'm doing the same, "reply to all" rules, fix your mail client or your list configuration. -- Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri http://profusion.mobi embedded systems -------------------------------------- MSN: barbi...@gmail.com Skype: gsbarbieri Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
